I have to agree with Paul Proctor. Can you see Paul asking the elders to gather for a reading of heretical books so that they can teach against them? If I recall correctly early Christians burned such books. Yet, here in this on-line Christian bookstore they just offer any heresy for anyone to read and they justify it by using the disclaimer “read with discernment” or “check everything out with the Bible”

Well, looking at the state of the church today, isn’t it quite obvious that discernment is lacking in most of the church? Have you taken a survey of how many people in Christian churches have even read the Bible? I have news, it is not the majority. So can these biblically illiterate people discern what is truth from lies when the author offers 90 percent truth mixed with 10 percent deadly deception?

Perhaps they are buying the book to get some understanding on a current new popular teaching but if they are they really ought to read the writings of Christian scholars who are informed, have checked out the teaching with the Bible and can speak on that issue biblically. Instead, the Christian book stores make it very easy for the uneducated, undiscerning and the gullible to get a one sided heretical view directly from the horse’s-behind.

Often pastors are influenced by these heresies and spread them and even if they have the wisdom to reject the teachings the book usually still ends up in the church library for others to read.

Granted, some scholars will need to read these books to critique the book but they do not need to go to a Christian book store to get the book.

I guess some bookstores see no problem in making money off of deceptive heretical garbage and that is one reason why one deceptive book after another becomes a church small group study. After all, the group leader found this interesting sounding book in a Christian bookstore and it does quote Bible verses. Just ask the Oprah clones where they get their books?

The bottom-line is that this is all about the bottom-line. You are certainly free to run your book store anyway you want but if you are knowingly selling heresy maybe you should not call your business a Christian book store.

Paul Proctor — LifeWay says: Read With Discernment

Apparently, this is what they came up with to justify offering their third-party distributor’s problematic products through their search engine - just claim they are “relevant,” “of value” and “strictly” for the benefit of pastors, seminary students and ministry leaders doing “critical study or research.”

Since when are pastors, seminary students and ministry leaders immune to the seductive and intoxicating words of false teachers? If swayed with unbiblical instruction, worldly philosophies and pragmatic principles, will they not pass them along to their unsuspecting brothers and sisters in Christ who trust them for solid scriptural guidance?

Then what do you suppose happens when a concerned church member speaks up and challenges the erroneous teachings that are brought in from said leadership? Well, I can tell you that all too often they’re accused of causing division and disunity in the fellowship by questioning the leadership’s authority and wisdom and are promptly shown the door.

What a great way to undermine the Gospel and initiate a paradigm shift in the overall direction and purpose of the church, wouldn’t you say? And to think it can all be carried out under the radar because the instigator pulls it off with a book he or she writes that makes it into a church they never even have to visit to persuade.

Or is LifeWay just postulating these excuses because it’s easier and cheaper than having to perpetually police their third-party distributor’s offerings for the protection of customers?

Moreover, where did Jesus, Paul or any of those from the early church tell us in scripture that it was permissible to reward the enemies of Christ with our patronage for purposes of “scholarly study?” Seeing as that money goes to help support their causes, enhance their lifestyles, advance their agendas and further spread their erroneous teachings, wouldn’t that make gullible customers not only “partakers” of their “evil deeds” but also cosponsors of their erroneous endeavors as well?

But, if this is to be LifeWay’s template for handling controversial publications, then why not offer the works of Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Alice Bailey, Anton LaVay, Helena Petrovna Blavatsky and Larry Flynt for “scholarly study?” Just imagine the list of infamous names and titles that could be assembled under this stated rationale.

Better yet, why not just take the word “Christian” out of LifeWay’s name altogether? That would free them up to “be all things to all people” and spare those who don’t shop secular bookstores a lot of confusion and calamity.

You see, the heart of the problem is this:

Many of today’s Christian bookstores, like the countless crowd-pleasing churches and ministries out there, unequally yoked themselves long ago to gurus, groups, businesses and organizations that do not share their values and convictions to get the numbers up. Try as they may to justify it with pragmatic reasoning and evangelistic goals, it is still in direct opposition to the Word and Will of God. And until they recognize this and repent of it, the situation will not improve.

“Christian” hypocrites brought together by the peanut farmer can build what on the house of God? Answer: peanut shells.

clipped from www.newswithviews.com As far as I’m concerned, outgoing SBC president Frank Page, who incidentally, declined the invitation to attend, had it right when he called the meeting a “smoke-screen left-wing liberal agenda.” Carter can preach Christian unity all he wants, but the fact is, he was the one who officially spurned the Southern Baptist Convention on a sop box back in 2000. If anyone is guilty of promoting division among Baptists, it is the presidential peanut farmer from Georgia.

Paul Proctor — Betrayal of Christ by Christian Leaders Continues: “In a December 17th 2007 article titled, Rick Warren Counsels Jews on Recruiting Congregants, the Christian Post reported that the beloved senior pastor and founder of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest California, a Southern Baptist congregation, ‘attended a large Reform Jewish gathering last week to share tips on how to build a community.’
So, instead of sharing Christ with his Jewish audience, Pastor Warren shared ‘tips on how to build a community?’”

He obviously has too many purpose driven seekers on his hands and wants the Jews to entertain them for awhile. Why else would he want to help build Jewish congregations?

“Why is this double-minded man still pastoring a Southern Baptist church? What does he have to do to get fired? And why do SBC pastors continue to teach and promote his books, his programs, his sermons and his P.E.A.C.E. Plan when apparently being Purpose Driven doesn’t even require faith in Christ?
If anyone can be Purpose Driven, then who needs Jesus?”

I think you know why they they still promote Rick Warren. You stated it below.

In California you are going to find thousands of people who think like Rick Warren and thus, they attend his church. Also remember he tells those who do not agree with his program to find another church, many have. That is why he does not get fired, he has like minded people in his congregation. He is not unique in America, even much more doubled minded people have large followings. Americans just tend to worship media stars.

“Unfortunately, too many of today’s pastors, both inside and outside the Southern Baptist Convention have totally invested themselves and their churches into the Purpose Driven paradigm. To speak up now and rebuke Warren publicly would require they admit to their colleagues and congregations that they were wrong about the man and his teachings. And with so much pride at stake and so many careers and ministries in the balance, I dare say there aren’t many out there who would be willing to step forward to confess and repent.”

Paul Proctor — Christian leaders betray Christ for world peace: “How then can Christians join Muslims to love God together and not be an abomination before Him? We’re talking about two entirely different ‘Gods’ here - not the same God with differing names. And that’s the big lie hidden in this global agenda. By swapping love letters with Muslims, these ‘Christian leaders’ endeavor to legitimize the illegitimate by setting aside the whole counsel of God for Results & Relationships. Jesus Christ is not the Son of Allah; and to even imply that He is by claiming to love the same ‘God’ as Muslims is not only being dangerously deceitful - it’s blasphemy! “

“And that’s what this is really all about - systematically merging the two faiths into one through the dialectic process - not merely finding “common ground” or “reflecting” a “common love for God,” but actually creating a common god for the common good.
Who stands to benefit from this?
The coming antichrist, of course.
Kind of gives a whole new meaning to the term “church growth movement,” doesn’t it?”

Well said. These new Evangelicals are emerging into universalism. They know the buzz words to say when they are speaking to Christians but there agenda is not the agenda of Jesus Christ it is the agenda of the world and the Antichrist.

How deceptively they did all this. Pastors wants church growth so they developed a methodology to bring in unbelievers into the church and develop a big following. Now these Gurus will take the dumbed down Christians that remain down emerging paths of apostasy to a universal belief that demotes the Son as just another way of many ways to God.

Paul Proctor — Does God Need Hollywood?: “So, on the heels of Southland Christian Church’s love-letter mission to Britney Spears comes a story from the Christian Post titled, Hundreds Pray to Transform Hollywood, that reports on a ‘crowd of over 700 Christians and media professionals’ gathering in California to try and redeem Hollywood. The article begins this way: Hundreds hoping to redeem Hollywood asked God to change the hearts of entertainment leaders and celebrities like Britney Spears during a media prayer breakfast Friday morning. Now, keep in mind, there is nothing here about anyone asking God to save the lost, poor and forgotten in and around Hollywood - the world’s castaways, confused, homeless, drunk and drug addicted nobodies. No, according to this article, they want God to bless the big shots - so the big shots can in turn, use their big shot power and influence to reach the little shots that worship and serve them. Is that what Jesus did? Do you see how sick and twisted this is - how this actually distorts, perverts and undermines the Gospel of Jesus Christ by attempting to capture and co-opt the worldly power and influence of Hollywood to save Hollywood? “

Paul Proctor — Are Baptists Really Better Together?: “You see, the real ‘distraction’ here is the false claim that Baptists are being divided by ‘methodological differences, generational gaps’ and ’stylistic preferences.’ This tired old argument has been coming from the bowels of the Southern Baptist Convention for years - mostly from trained facilitators who have made careers out of exploiting biblical ignorance and spinning the scriptures to promote goodwill rather than God’s Will. In spite of their claims, in most cases, it is not style or preference that is causing this deep-seated conflict - but rather conviction - meaning it is the Word of God that is dividing Baptists. “

I have noticed myself that the SBC has taken on many of the philosophies of the world. They are using the same type of facilitators and consensus builders that brought politically correct team concepts to government and corporations. Truth is what the majority can come to consensus on and not necessarily what is true.

I also see it in their Sunday school programs where they all now use quarterlies magazines made up by teams in Nashville that indoctrinate the whole Southern Baptist Convention. The magazines have all but replaced the Bible and Bible studies with Lifeway’s views about what the Bible says. It has generally replaced sound exegesis of the Bible with weekly applications for living a more abundant life. The SBC claims to be made up of independent churches but almost everyone in the convention is following the teachings of a hand full of national leaders who are sometimes way off the mark.

Paul Proctor is correct, there are some issues we need to stay separated on because a little leaven leavens the whole loaf.

Paul Proctor — Is a new church emerging from the pulpits of compromise?: “IS A NEW CHURCH EMERGING FROM THE PULPITS OF COMPROMISE?”

You might say is a Harlot emerging in the name of Christianity? By what you tell us and by what I know the answer is clearly yes. Of course scriptures indicated that this would happen in the end times.

Paul Proctor — Why do bars have parking lots?: If it is against the law to drive an automobile under the influence of alcohol, which in most cases amounts to having little more than one or two drinks under your belt, why do establishments that primarily serve adult beverages provide patrons with a place to park their car while they become too intoxicated to drive it?
After all, how many of their customers stop by for just one drink or bring a teetotaler along to drive them home after throwing down a few? Are we to believe that those who have had too much to drink will sit there and sip water or drink coffee for several hours after tying one on until their blood alcohol level returns to normal?

“So, why do we allow bar hoppers a convenient place to park their cars so they can get liquored up and hit the road again? I mean, do we really want to stop drunk driving or do we just want their money? Judging from all of the repeat offenders that are still on the street, some with literally dozens of DUIs to their name, I’d say the courts consider them to be more of a cash cow than a bull in a china shop. “

There are several issues here, Paul. I will take the position of the average American drinker to express their point of view. Most bars had parking lots before they kept lowering the DUI limit. When I was young it was .15 and there were no check points or balloons to blow in. So the officers had to use judgment to find the dangerous drivers. Then they lowered the limit to .10 and inserted check points and balloons. Now they have lowered it to .08 and some are going to .05. Thus, all those bars that still have parking lots now enable everyone who visits to break the law.

However, what is really going on here? First of all we now know that .15 was too high a limit but .10 was about right and all states agreed with that limit. You could still have a few and not get arrested when driving home. Then along comes the Federal Government pressured by MADD with no real data that lowering the limit below the .10 limits would cause less deaths. Those killing people are those not paying attention to any limits. Federal Government without scientific evidence kowtows to MADD and then tells the states that if they do not lower their limits to .08 they will get there transportation funds cut off. So now states have to enforce a limit that they know really has no correlation with accidents. There is no real evidence that .08 or .05 results in less accidents then the old .10 limit.

The statistics some use have bias as well. When they make up alcohol related accident statistics if anyone driving in the accident had any alcohol in their system it is tallied as an alcohol related accident even if alcohol was not a factor in the accident. Thus the more they lower the limit the more data they acquire that they need to lower the limit even further. It is all based on circular reasoning and has little to do with any scientific studies.

Special funding is now given to police forces to create task forces to find people over the limit through what I believe are unconstitutional means. They have to use these techniques to enforce these limits because they would never find law breakers any other way since most adults under .10 would not usually be attracting the attention of police. Thus, they now set up road blocks and sit by bars waiting for people to come out and then they look for some unrelated reason to pull them over and make them take a balloon test.

Why do they do this? The police are told to do this. They are told to do this because the convictions fund additional task forces and pays for the prosecutor’s programs. In addition a long list of arrests looks good, wins promotions and it appeases the control freaks who would otherwise pressure them.

What is the end result? If you visit a bar once a week and have a few while you are there, sooner or later you will get a DUI. It is a lottery. Getting caught is more a matter of chance then any other factor. If you get caught in the lottery it will cost you thousands of dollars. Visit any bar with regulars and ask for a show of hands. Most of them have gotten their ticket punched, some more than once.

They still have road bars and parking lots at bars because in most cases there is no public transportation to get there and back. Most people go to bars to socialize and that is why most are willing to risk the police lottery by driving there. There simply are few alternatives in our society to socialize. Men in this country do not gather in tents, huts, and tea houses to discuss issues and bond they go to bars. Western evangelical churches have largely failed in providing any real substitute for bonding and socializing (This is not true in third would countries).

If government really wanted to do something about stopping people from driving to bars. They would only license bars in local neighborhoods so people could walk. Instead most will not license a bar in a residential area. An alternative would be for government to find a way to provide low cost public transportation for people who go to bars. They somehow do find ways to provide public transportation for the elderly who need to get somewhere.

As you imply in your article, it is all illogical. What they are doing does not stop drinking and driving, it makes criminals out of otherwise law abiding people and it is a hidden tax that supports abusive unconstitutional police powers.

No. I am not telling people to drink, or to drink and drive. However, we know many will, as will many cops, prosecutors and politicians making these laws. The people breaking these laws also include the Southern Baptists who hypocritically visit their masonic lodges and hypocritically drink there. It also includes the Christian war vets at their American legions and VFW’s. It is time to stop being a nation full of hypocrites looking for specks in our neighbors eyes and supporting laws to remove them. This attitude is making many common people in our country criminals. We already have the highest incarceration rate in the world! We have now so militarized our police forces that we are probably only one terrorist attack from a police state!

We need laws and solutions that are sensible and are not just knee jerk reactions to squeaking wheel control freaks. It is not just the alcohol laws I am talking about here either. Everyday new laws and restrictions are enacted for Americans to follow while non Americans and traitors are given a free pass on issues that are killing this nation. It is time for real Americans to take back America before they lose it to the control freaks.