February 27th, 2006
The war of Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39 - and the war of Psalm 83
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Date posted: Monday, February 27th, 2006 9:10 pm | Under category: Uncategorized
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Date posted: Monday, February 27th, 2006 9:10 pm | Under category: Uncategorized
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Hi Don, got a question for you.
I believe you have the timing of the war of Ezekiel right, but Dave Hunt believes it has to be at the end of the tribulation because of this statement:
39:22 Then the house of Israel will know that I am the Lord their God, from that day forward.
He argues that since Israel will know the Lord that it can’t refer to any prior time. I think I have a solution but I’d be curious what your thoughts are.
Hi Teknomom,
I know Dave Hunt thinks the war in Ezekiel chapter 38 and 39 is at the end of the tribulation and so do some others but I disagree. The Battle simply does not fit that scenario.
The end time battle is not even in the same area. In Ezekiel we have some nations that come with the Gog who comes from the uttermost parts of the North. The armies in the end of the tribulation come from all nations on earth. There are many more things that can be said to proved this is not the same war as the one at the end of the seven year tribulation.
Some like Hal Lindsey think Gog comes mid trib but I do not see how that is possible either because the whole house of Israel is burning weapons of warfare for seven years and burying Gog’s army after seven months. They would be doing this during the great tribulation when the remnant of Israel has fled to the mountains for divine protection from the Antichrist? It does not add up.
In my mind that leaves one of two possibilities. The war is the kick off for the seven year tribulation (but that does not fit the false peace scenario) or the war is before the tribulation. My position is the war is some time before the tribulation. God said this war will take place in the latter days. He does not say it will take place in the day of the Lord or at the end of the age. I think this war is actually the first four seal judgments but I also think the seal judgments start at least 3 1/2 years before the seven year agreement that is signed with Israel to start the classic seven year tribulation period.
I think the first seals are only the beginning of sorrows. It says Israel will know the Lord their God from that day forward and this is the only reason why these teachers hold the position they do. However Israel knew the Lord their God in past times and never knew Him by the name of Jesus. I think by this divine intervention they will again know that there is a God who watches over Israel but they will not get the Jesus connection until they reject the Antichrist in the time of Jacob’s trouble and have to flee.
Therefore, I think the end of the war of Ezekiel is 3 1/2 years prior to the tribulation and about the time of the rapture of the true Church. Israel will be burning the weapons of warfare for only seven years because after seven years Israel will find itself in the middle of the classic seven year tribulation and therefore they will have to flee to the mountains for protection.
I think there will be a false great tribulation instigated by Satan through the wars of man to set the world up to believe they went through the biblical tribulation. This will be done to deceive the whole world to accept the Antichrist as the promised Savior seven years after the divine intervention against Gog and the rapture. They will also accept his kingdom as the kingdom on earth promised by God. Yet, at the end of seven years from God’s intervention in the world is when the real judgments from God begin.
The Judgments of the real great tribulation start after the false Messiah kills the two Jewish prophets and the world is saying peace and safety. The biblically dumbed down world will actually believe they killed the Antichrist and his false prophet. Instead they will be celebrating the death of the true prophets of God and will accept the real Antichrist and the real False Prophet. Along with this great deception will come the real great tribulation (pretty diabolical stuff). I explain this more fully in my Revelation commentary.
Hi Don,
Yes I did read your Rev. book (well, okay, I skimmed through and will read slowly later). I think the false tirb. concept makes perfect sense. I used to wonder why the idea of this 7-year period was becoming so popular since most people have had little interest in prophecy. But with the 3.5 years between the rapture and the trib it’s the perfect setup.
I’ve always had a problem with the 2 witnesses being killed at the end of the trib for a couple reasons: people don’t send each other gifts in the midst of all the bowl judgments, and the whole world seeing them implies that satillites/internet are still up and running, a very unlikely fact at the end of the trib.
For the war of Ezekiel, the statements about Israel no longer profaning God are explainable, as you said. They will again know YHWH but not Yeshua. But we could also say that their coming back to God doesn’t necessarily have to follow immediately after that war, but will be a result of it nonetheless.
God tells us that in the war of Ezekiel that He will become known to the world.
He says “Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.”
It seems the whole world will understand that there is a God in heaven after the divine intervention for Israel against Gog.
Thus, we see the catalyst for a one world religion. The world will unite on the belief that there actually is a God in heaven.
The problem that arises after the war is not atheism. It is that the world will expect the God of heaven to immediately bring in a kingdom of peace and justice while sinners love the fallen world they are in and still love living in their sins.
They even will try to make the kingdom on earth happen themselves much like some in the church do today that teach the church has replaced Israel and that the church will bring in the kingdom.
They will kill all that oppose them like the world church did in the inquisitions and by doing so they will think that they are doing God a favor.
These same heretics also teach the law was done away with but that is not possible. Jesus paid the price required by the law so we can fellowship with God but the law is eternal. The scriptures even say the law will be written in our hearts. God does not write something in our hearts that has been done away with. I am not saying the law saves anyone. However, if there was no eternal law there would be no need for a Savior for those who break it.
What the pseudo church does not understand is that the kingdom will not be established through religion on earth (Mystery Babylon). It will be established through the Messiah of Israel after sinners living on the earth are judged.
With the ingrained replacement theology of the pseudo church they will reject the message of the two prophets of God as being from Satan because the two prophets will enforce the law on the world in preparation for the Kingdom.
Thus, we now see why the two prophets are given power to bring judgment as often as they wish and why the world hates them and kills them. It is because the world wants to continue in sin and does not want to be subjected to the laws of God.
Since they will reject the truth God will send them a strong delusion so they will believe a lie. He will give them a Christ that will allow them to live in the lawlessness they love instead of the Jewish King that can save them from their sins.
It was foretold by the prophets that Jesus will rule the world with a rod of iron (the law) but they will want paradise on earth without any repentance on their part.
Thus, in the great tribulation they will reap the consequences of a lawless Christ in a lawless world.
“These same heretics also teach the law was done away with but that is not possible. Jesus paid the price required by the law so we can fellowship with God but the law is eternal. The scriptures even say the law will be written in our hearts. God does not write something in our hearts that has been done away with. I am not saying the law saves anyone. However, if there was no eternal law there would be no need for a Savior for those who break it.“
Have to disagree with you on the law, but I won’t go into that much here. Got articles in my web if you’re interested.
But basically, the Law was “nailed to the cross” and we are now under a new law, the law of love. Jesus said that to love God and love our neighbor sums up the Law and the Prophets, because love does no harm to its neighbor. For example, the reason murder is wrong is not because it’s in the written Law, but because love does not murder.
When Jesus rules in the Millenium, we can’t say it’s the law of Moses or he’d also enforce the scrificial system. This has not been necessary since Jesus made the ultimate sacrifice, “once for all” for everyone. Instead, what will be strictly enforced is the law of love. Anyone who does harm will be guilty of breaking that law and will surely be penalized. I’d have a very hard time believing people will be punished for working on the Sabbath or anything else that was strictly for the nation of Israel.
Other than that, I completely agree with you.
I see no scripture where is says the law was nailed to the cross. you cannot do away with something that was perfect to start with.
Ps 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
Ps 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Ps 119:1 ALEPH. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
Jesus was nailed to the cross not the law. God is a God of law and He makes that clear all the way through the Bible.
Loving God and loving each other does fulfill all the requirements of the law because doing so takes the law to the level that God intended in His creation. This is what the sermon on the mount was all about.
The law is for the good of creation. In the example of the Sabbath, proper understanding of this law teaches that the Sabbath was made for man’s benefit. When this law is applied at the highest level we worship God in spirit and truth without regard to any specific day of the week.
The concept of the law given to Israel had several levels one of them being prophetic (the coming millennial rest is a great Sabbath) it was necessary for Israel to keep these concepts so lead the world to the Messiah and so prophetic truth could be understood. All the law that was given was to be fulfilled to the nth degree and Israel nor no one else could keep the law at that level. However God wanted Israel to keep those laws to the letter because they were to be His holy nation on earth and to demonstrate these eternal truths to the world. They failed to do so but they will succeed when they accept their Messiah who sets up a thousand year Kingdom under law.
God intends to bring man to keeping the spirit of the law that he cannot keep in this body of flesh. You can take any of the commandments and see that they are only perfectly fulfilled in man becoming a new creation. Therefore, generally we are not in disagreement that the law is fulfilled by love but I know of no law of love per say in scriptures.
I do know of a law of faith that is mentioned in the scriptures. The requirements of the law is said to be fulfilled by the law of faith in the only God/Man who could keep the law perfectly and change us to be like Himself.
When we become like Him we will also keep the law perfectly because we will fulfill it at the level God intended. God is not going to change, the law was perfect from the start it was man concept of it that was flawed, the law will remain.
Of course you should realize when I was saying the law will remain, I was not talking about any ceremonial law that was given to Israel for only a specific purpose and dispensation of time. After the millennium the law will not be a factor because in the new creation the perfect law will be part of our nature. Somewhat like we breathe air today.
Colossians 2:14 is where it says the law was nailed to the cross. That whole chapter is a good one for seeing the purpose and temporary nature of the law. Along with that I would offer these two links:
article I wrote
blog entry
At any rate, this really isn’t a major factor in prophecy, so that’s all I’ll say about the law.
your right this is sort of off topic so we can end this but let me make this final comment before I do.
This is what Col 2: 14 says.
“having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross;”
I guess from that verse one might assume it is talking about the law of God but what I think Paul is actually saying is that the letter of the law given by angels condemned all flesh because no human flesh could keep it. This is why Satan continually accuses us before God according to the law. God took away the requirements in the law that salvation would come via keeping the law. He did that when His Son of Flesh was cursed under the requirements of law (cursed is anyone who hangs on a tree - De 21:23). His Son then rose to a new creation where the perfect law of God would be written in spiritual hearts of many new creations born from above by grace through faith in His risen Son.
The scriptures indicate that the law is spiritual and holy and as you said perfect love fulfills it. Therefore the law was not nailed to the cross but the requirements to keep the written law for man’s salvation were.
Ro 7:12 So that the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and righteous, and good.
Ro 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Ro 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Ro 8:4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Ro 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness to every one that believeth.
1Jo 3:4 Every one that doeth sin doeth also lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.
So there is nothing wrong with the law that it had to be killed. Man has to be born from above and enter the new covenant so he can get a new nature and keep the perfect law of God by putting on the nature of Jesus. No man of flesh can keep the ordinances of the law unless he walks after the Spirit and that is what Ro 8:4 says. If the law was nailed to the tree it would be cursed and dead but we see it is still very much alive in those living in the flesh and is actively causing the deaths of people of flesh.
Anyway all this does not matter that much because we both believe in the new covenant for believers and believe that those in the new covenant live by the law of faith. This law of faith brings us into spiritual life that allows us to love God and love others which as you said is the fulfillment of all of God’s law.
Getting back on topic. I claimed that the world will reject law and choose lawlessness and the lawless one (Antichrist). This is what the Bible indicates will happen in the last days. This is because those living on earth during this period will not have entered the new covenant that can free them from the condemnation in the law.
They instead will choose to live in their flesh and sin and will reap the consequences of breaking the law in the great tribulation (death). Therefore the law is not nailed to the tree for the man of flesh and unbelievers otherwise there would be no more death.
The scriptures are clear that Jesus will come in judgment and cut off those who reject Him. There will still be some sin and death and judgment in the millennium as well. A study of Ezekiel chapters 40 thru 48 outlines a Jewish system during the millennial period. I believe Israel still has to fulfill the covenant God planned for Israel when he sent them a Messiah.
Israel is to bring the knowledge of God to the world and to restore the earth to the condition it was in before the fall of Adam. They will fulfill the Adamic covenant to be fruitful multiply and subdue the earth. The promise of the new covenant was made to the house of Israel and Judah without conditions and it is not totally fulfilled in the church. That future dispensation is the restored Jewish kingdom on the earth for a thousand years and all that might imply.
I delete the last post because I left out “do not” and changed the whole meaning of what I said
Hi Toknomom,
I read your articles and agree with what you said in them. Christians are not under the requirements of the law. I also do not see where your articles disagree with anything that I said. I was not talking about Christians.
“Ro 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;”
This scripture makes it clear that those who “do not” come to Christ will be judged by the law.
The world will reject God’s law and yet not receive God’s solution to breaking the law, instead they will want a lawless man to be their Christ (Antichrist)so they can continue in their lawlessness.