2008 Finger lakes Bible conference with Chuck Missler and Dave Hunt
Note: The following article was written about a Bible prophecy conference that I attended and I wrote about in 2008. I notice that the article is still being hit on quite often so I added this note to make something clear before you read it. My critique of this conference does not imply that any future conferences at Finger Lakes are anything less then outstanding. I also do not suggest that you will not get outstanding presentations from these same highly esteemed key speakers at future conferences.
I was at a small Bible prophecy conference for the last few days. The conference speakers were Chuck Missler, Dave Hunt, Bill Gallatin and Amir Tsarfati.
I guess the theme of the conference was upping the bar because we are getting very close to the rapture.
Amir Tsarfati is from Israel and is a very engaging speaker. If you every get a chance to listen to him do so. He gave us the latest in Israel which really was not news to me since I keep up on these things. He feels the present government of Israel will fall around the end of this month. He sees all the pieces of the puzzle almost in place for the Ezekiel 38 scenario. He also thinks there will be an attack on Iran within months and that Damascus will be destroyed shortly.
Bill Gallation’s message was mainly one of exhortation to the church to do the work of God while we still have time. He also made it clear that he thought America would soon be judged.
Dave Hunt talked mostly about the “New Atheists” that are very evil and are now on a crusade against all religion. Dave is recovering from hip surgery and is getting quite elderly. He was kind of scattered at the conference. It could be medication he is on or it just might be that old age is catching up with him. He said he has to do three debates against top scholars within a week. I simply do not see Dave being very effective in these debates if he performed like he did at the conference. I think Dave needs our prayers that God will strengthen this great defender of the faith.
I am a great Chuck Missler fan but Chuck Missler was a let down for me this time. He just did the same 10 year old material of his at the conference. It was about the same stuff you would get from his “Through the Bible in 24 Hours” series. He seemed to be there more to sell his material than to give us any new insights on Bible prophecy.
Missler started his own Internet Bible institute where if you buy his material and do a small amount of interaction and pass a multiple guess test you can get credit for completing the course. He presently has three levels of achievement: bronze, silver and gold. He claims that up to half his credits can be transferred to a certain Internet correspondence University and be used toward a bachelor, masters or PHD program. My problem with that is that degrees from universities like this are probably useless in the real world anyway. So what it comes down to for me is that you end up paying twice as much for Chuck Mislers MP3’s so you can hang a ridiculous huge medellion around your neck. Chuck and others were wearing their medellion around their necks for the entire conference.
At the time of this conference there had been a couple of hundred people who have completed the Bronze course. Chuck was asked but did not indicate that there were any who have made it to Gold yet, although he did say that dozens were given honorary Gold.
I guess there are several motivations for this institute. Chuck feels the church is ignorant on the Bible and what is going on in the world and needs educating. I would agree with him on that point but usually those going to Bible prophecy conferences are not the ones that need to be targeted.
Chuck also feels the Church will soon need to go underground and the best way to do this is to use Internet technology. I have some concerns with that and I brought up a couple of my concerns to Chuck. If fundamental Christian teaching become illegal it will not be a problem for the government to filter out any Christian material or even track down anyone. For example, they could use the word “Chuck Missler” and automatically dump any article with that name being indexed, hosted or going through an ISP. They could also do it with the words “second coming” or “rapture” or any other word or phrase they want. They are already doing that in China and some other countries.
Some might say you could encrypt the information but then the government could require all encryption software companies to give them the encryption keys. I brought that up to Chuck but Chuck just said that they did not even need encryption keys. If that were the case (and in real time operations it is not) then Chuck just proved my case.
Chuck teaches that there will be a satellite within five years that will provide Internet access for everyone on earth. That probably is not true. One satellite is not going to cover the whole earth. It might be that in five years there will be the beginnings of a satellite system that will eventually cover the whole earth but the whole system would be many years down the line. The media companies are not investing hundreds of billions of dollars in fiber cable and WiMax technology because it will be all obsolete in five years.
Even if there were a satellite system, it would change nothing about filtering capabilities. If all communications were coming from the satellites, someone could still filter the information just by having the data downloaded to government censors before uploading it again to the satellite and sending it back to the earth.
Another argument Chuck used was that we would be “under-the-radar” so to speak. Nobody is under-the-radar of a filter.
So I am finding this underground Internet Church idea to be incredibly naive. Government right now in the name of nation security is being told to monitor all Internet traffic. Any underground church that wants to be under-the-radar better separate itself from any electronic media.
Anyway, for what my opinion is worth, I find this whole under-the-radar Internet institute of Missler’s to be not well thought out. I also do not feel that he should be using a quarter of his time at a Bible conference to promote his institute during his speaking slots. After all, I paid a entrance fee to hear about Bible prophecy not about what he is selling. They give him plenty of space and time to sell his stuff in the lobby.
Missler brought up one interesting point at the conference that I will have to think more about. He makes a distinction between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven. He claims that the passages about those Christians practicing the sins mentioned where it is said that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of heaven, is not talking about whether they will be saved or not. Missler claims that the inheritance is ruling and reigning with Jesus Christ in the Millennium. Thus, Missler indicates that some in Christ will not rule or even be in the Millennium reign or Kingdom of Heaven but they still will be saved in the Kingdom of God. I have not thought through the concept yet, so I do not take a position on it. But, if it were true, it could explain why people who are obviously believers are told that if they are practicing these sins, they will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven which in this view comes to earth for a thousand years.
Date posted: Saturday, January 19th, 2008 12:45 pm | Under category: Bible prophecy teachers
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I’m really surprised Chuck Missler would talk like that, being a computer/intelligence/prophecy expert and all.
“Everything about John’s prophecy demands the existence of a global computer network tied into a global economy and overseen by a global governmental authority. Until this generation, it was impossible.”
-Omega Letter
I hope the Prince of Peace comes before all our good Bible teachers fall to pieces!
What Chuck was relating about the Millennial Kingdom is not new. It may be new for him, but the early pre-Nicene church believed that resurrection into the Millennial reign was earned by faithfulness in a Christian. The doctrine had a resurgence in England in the 1800s, and it would be hard to find a house church in China that didn’t teach the Kingdom accountability doctrine. Salvation is a gift. Inheritance (co-reigning) in the Kingdom age is a reward for undergoing hardship for the sake of the gospel.
Waugh,I think I could believe that doctrine to be true it answers certain questions but raises other questions as well.
So if that is true could that also mean that the Rapture would also be a reward just for the faithful at the Lord’s return and not a birthright for all Christians as some teach? I teach the escape from physical death is a reward for those pleasing God at His return and not a right. Examples being Enoch who pleased God so he did not see physical death and only one of the churches of Revelation being delivered from the time of trial that would come on all the earth. Not to mention in detail all the warnings to watch because we do not know when the Lord will return.
Then there is the view put forth by Donald Grey Barnhouse, G.H. Pember, Noah Hutchings and others that the Kingdom of Heaven as presented by Jesus in The Gospel of Matthew is the Mellienial rule of Jewish nation over the earth (thus replacing “the God of this world”) and that the Kingdom of God is the overarching rule of God over the heavens and the earth and is reserved for the Church in Christ, (thus replacing “the Prince of the Power of the air.” and all the principlaities and powers in heavenly places (Eph. 6)). This explains the reason for the Gospel of the Kingdom as preached by Peter, and the Gospel of Grace as preached by Paul. Two entities (Israel and the Church), two areas or rulership (earth and heaven) two different callings (earthly and heavenly) and two different covenants (keeping the Law, salvation by Grace.)
That is the way I have been understanding the millennial reign as well. Some of Missler’s concepts I just cannot buy into. Some examples: Bible codes, Muslim Antichrist and part of he Church not taking part in the millennial reign over the earth.
I am an on-line student with CM’s Institute and have been blessed beyond anything I could have imagined. My classmates are Bible-believing Christians from around the world who really desire to learn the Bible. It is far more than taking multiple-choice quizzes. We answer rather in-depth discussion questions, respond to each others answers, pray for each other, and try to be “encouragers of one another” in our growth in the Lord. I have never heard Chuck Missler say we must believe the way he believes. He challenges us to be good Bereans and spend much time in personal study and prayer to find what the Lord has to say. As for his “on-line” concept, we all realize that “on-line” could be curtailed or derailed completely. But, while it is still available, the Institute (which is composed of many dedicated believers volunteering their time), is getting the Word of God to people all over the world. And, for me, that is just so important. I truly believe that the Holy Spirit led me to KI, and I have dedicated my life to learning God’s Word and sharing it with others. So, the Institute may not be for everyone, but it is doing a marvelous job for many. I am not angry at your comments; just wanted to share a personal response. I have enjoyed your website and especially your wonderful collection of Christian links. May the Lord continue to bless your work.
I have learned a lot from Chuck Missler as well by buying some of his MP3 CD’s and also listening to much of his free teaching on his website. I do recommend that people buy his teaching CD’s. I was not criticizing his teaching or saying that he thinks you have to believe what he believes. My point was that you can get the same CD’s for half the price without joining the institute. If you think it is worth the extra money to interact with others and be tested on what you heard that is fine with me. Another point was that instead of teaching Bible prophecy at that Bible prophecy conference Missler was using much of his time slots to promote his own institute.
I really think that Missler and his trainees should take that four inch gaudy medal off of their neck when they go to Bible Prophecy conferences. Many of the people attending the conferences know as much about the Bible as those wearing these huge medals all day every day. Lets face it, the different color medals for public display is all about vanity and it makes those that wear them look like a bunch of Chuck Missler groupies. Even if I graduated from Dallas Theological Seminary I would not wear a four inch emblem displaying that around my neck at Bible conferences.
Thanks for your response.
I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT, THIS LINK WOULD DISCUSS THE TOPICS AT THE CONFRENCE. I COULDN’T FIND ANY SUBSTANCE HERE. I FEEL AS IF I’VE READ AN ENTIRE PAGE OF COMPLAINT. WHAT IS THIS THE GOAL OF THIS PAGE? PLEASE FORGIVE ME, IF I AM OFFENSIVE. I MEAN NO HARM BUT BILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE BEING MISDIRECTED. IS IT ME? IS IT YOU?
PLEASE GOD FORGIVE US ALL, FOR OUR BICKERING.
I took the time and went to this “Bible prophecy conference” and if you had been there you would know that there was very little Bible prophecy substance, that is my point. Since I have a website and blog on Bible prophecy and I took three days to attend that conference the point of this post was to inform others of what I observed and learned at this Bible prophecy conference. If nothing was said about what I learned it is because I learned nothing about Bible prophecy at that conference worth writing about.
I admire Dave Hunt and Chuck Missler’s teaching or I never would have spent my time and money to go to the conference. There were four main guest speakers over three days. Hunt was sick and unprepared and in obviously pain and was almost intelligible, he spoke mostly on atheism. He really should not have even been there in his condition. I also have news, atheism is not Bible prophecy. Missler was rehashing old material and spending a third of his time teaching on why people should spend money to join his bible institute. A third person was the former pastor of that church and he did a good job but it was pretty generic teaching. There really was nothing noteworthy about Bible prophecy to report on there that I recall. The fourth speaker was flown in from Israel and was suppose to be some expert on the inner secrets of Israel because he once was in the military and now is a tour guide. The whole substance of his speech was that he had inner information that an attack on Iran would happen within six months. It never did.
Billions of people are being misdirected? Get a grip! a few thousand at most have ever read this post and there is no misdirection in it. Have you ever heard of constructive criticism or are Christians above that? The only person bickering here is you. Just because Finger Lakes is a small conference does not mean that people should get second rate presentations from first rate billings. Hopefully the 2009 Finger Lakes conference was better. I did not attend that conference so I cannot comment on it.
Hi Don,
I admire Chuck Missler and would call myself a fan of his teaching. I attended a Chuck Missler seminar in July 2009, when he toured Australia, and found him fascinating and informative. So much so that, when his “Strategic Perspectives 4″ DVD was recently released, featuring speakers from a conference held in Oct 2009, I eagerly ordered a copy and looked forward to some new insights.
Sadly, like you, I found Dr. Missler to be just like you described him above. I was surprised at this and, to be honest, rather disappointed.
I am still very much an admirer of his teaching but this time I found some of the other speakers to be much more interesting and informative.
Grant Jeffrey (of whom I hadn’t heard prior to watching the DVD) spoke about global surveillance and the RFID chip -that was fascinating. I see you’ve done a post on the chip so I’m off to check it out.
Thank you for this website, it obviously takes a lot of time and effort.
God bless,
Christina Charles