Anti spanking bill returns in California
In California they just keep bringing defeated anti Christian bills back until they find a way to get them passed. Here is another attempt to make spanking criminal.
West Coast ’spanking ban’ bill returns (OneNewsNow.com)
The pro-family lobby Capitol Resource Family Impact says the new version of a recycled bill promoting a “spanking ban” from last year’s session of the California legislature would place any parent who spanks his or her child on four-years minimum probation and force the parent to attend a “non-violent parental education class.”
AB 2943, introduced by Assemblywoman Sally Lieber, would also give the child a criminal court protective order “protecting the victim from further acts of violence or threats.” Capitol Resource Family Impact (CRFI) says it is essentially identical to last year’s AB 755, the highly-publicized measure that drew enough national attention for it to be defeated because of the outrage of parents.
Date posted: Saturday, April 12th, 2008 12:44 pm | Under category: Big Brother, Christian haters, control freaks, dangers
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Obviously the idiots making these “laws” never got spanked themselves. Otherwise they wouldn’t be imposing such ridiculous “laws.” If I ever have kids I couldn’t care where I am and what “laws” there are, I’m never going to refrain from spanking my children. If anyone has a problem with that they can come up to me and I’ll teach them a lesson on the difference between “hitting” and “spanking”.
Children belong to God and it is the responsiblity of their Christian parents to teach them about the right Way and to discipline them accordingly. Non-laws like these equal parents who happen to love their children and want to keep them on the narrow Path to insane people who have no control over themselves and beat their children out of frustration or ultimately abuse their children. How fair!
So in the end who gets favored? Those softie post-modern non-parents who, like the liberals they voted into office, are morally relativistic and tell their children to decide what’s right or wrong to themselves. Often they are the same type of “parents” that love to pursue their own careers, go out working all day and leave raising the kids to public schools or their own parents. These things happens to be among the reasons why kids get into gangs and criminality.
Just how short sighted can some people get?! People should return to good “old-fashioned” family values. Or no, they should simply return to family values. “Modern” family values is an oxymoron anymore. They’re basically non-values.
“The rod and rebuke give wisdom, but a child left to himself brings shame to his mother.” — Proverbs 29:15
oops, make that “anymore” an “anyway”…
For those of you who think spanking is a good idea ask your selfs why the American Ped, Ass. website says that spanking is “the least effective form of discipline, and the worst thing you could do to your child.”
As Americans we are a developed country. But as a developed country we are one of the few that hits our children, always rated the least happy, the lowest educated, least productive and the highest weight. But those countries that choose not to hit their beautiful babies have the happiest, most educated,most sucessful children.
Every doctor, therapist, child pshyc., teacher says it is the worst thing you can do. I was hit as a child, and as I told my mother, “if I ever spanked my child, I would be a failure as a parent, and as a person.” While my husband who was never spanked handles, without stressing out, one of the top engineering jobs in the world. He is also a Wharton graduate and makes more money in a year than anyone I know who spanks will make in a lifetime. He does it without arrogance, stress and has been voted numerious times over in his life the “best manager.” He owes it all to his parents KINDLY guided what can only be called his spirited personality.
I wish every parent to think about their actions…Its hard, it really is the toughest job. But when you choose calm appropriate discipline, you show a child how to hadle major issues. Example, when my company has a huge problem, do I freak out? Stress, yell, srcream? That is not going to solve it. As my husbands parents told him, and what my parents failured to do…because, they thought “you do what I say or I will spank you,” is you teach a child how to respond to important situations. When he has huge problems, he doesn’t stress, he solves the problem.
I hope this information gives new ideas to families. That they can raise the most healthy, happy, successful children by being intelligent parents.
I wish you and your children the best,.
I should hit myself for speaking to a liberal anti spanking troll.
It does not matter what the American Ped. Ass says about spanking if they are against it in all circumstances they are wrong. Today’s undisciplined society is largely a result of the teaching of Dr. Spock and even he admits he was wrong. Someday the American Ped. Ass. will also say they were wrong. Some who are members of it agree with spanking.
You make claims about spanking in countries like you actually got your information from scientific studies when it is obvious to me that you just made them up. Some European nations are examples of those who do not physically discipline their children. They are growing up to be mostly amoral misfits. Even in this country the data that is in does not look good and all the data is not yet in.
Every doctor etc. does not say spanking is the worst thing you can do to a child. You are just making that up as well.
You cannot judge discipline methods by the way your husband was brought up. Some kids need physical discipline and some do not. I also have no way of evaluating your husbands morality against kids that were spanked. Or is morality not the issue with you? It is with me.
Discipline of children is not done when you are freaking out. It is done when you are rational so your kid will learn early in life not to play on yellow lines. Those who do not discipline their children hate them according to God.
The point anyways is not how parents discipline their children the point is that parents are the ones that are appointed and responsible to decide how to discipline their children not self appointed control freak nannies of the state of California.
Jesus’ Own Example was Discipline, NOT Punishment. There is an important distinction to be made between discipline and punishment. Jesus’ own ministry favored discipline over punishment….
Literally, punishment means, “to cause to undergo pain.” At its very roots, it has nothing to do with teaching. Punishment establishes a police/suspect relationship between punisher and the punished. Punishment relies heavily upon the notion of external control. That is to say, the parent is very pessimistic regarding the child’s desire, ability or willingness to behave properly, so the parent himself becomes the child’s limit and consequence… The philosophy that supports punishment asserts that compliance with the law for the law’s own sake (”blind obedience”) is a virtue. Spanking is the chief example of punishment. It is the height of external control.
Discipline assumes a teacher/student relationship, or Rabbi/disciple relationship if you prefer. The Latin root of discipline, “discipuli,” means, “student”.
Discipline’s main objective is to teach the offender what to do …rather than merely stopping the offense. For example, where punishment would say, “Don’t speak to me like that! Go to your room!” Discipline would say, “I know you are angry, but you may not speak to me that way. You may say (such and such) if you like. Now, tell me again, respectfully, please.”
Discipline is less concerned with teaching compliance with the law than it is with teaching how to have deeper, more respectful, and loving relationships. Discipline recognizes that” Love does no wrong to a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. (Rom. 13:10…. Discipline does not assume malicious intent on the part of the offender. It assumes that the offender is ignorant of an appropriate/meaningful way to meet personal needs. …
Discipline believes that good behavior is a teachable skill, not unlike math or reading. Because of this, it makes use of the tools that a good teacher would use. Tools like: good relationship/rapport building, teaching stories (”emotional word pictures”), following through with logical consequences, real life examples, personal sharing (discipling), redirecting, practice, and giving information in respectful, repeated and varied ways. People who use discipline correctly do not necessarily differ in the number of limits they establish, so much as in the dramatically different ways by which those limits are taught and enforced.
Certainly you can see that Jesus’ ministry was one which espoused discipline over punishment. Discipline recognizes that violence is not a good teaching tool. Imagine the following happening to you. Your child comes home from school and says that he was spanked because he missed a math problem. You call the teacher to say, “What were you thinking?”
The teacher responds by saying, “He did not do the problem as I taught him to.” “You should have told him again!”
“I told him plenty of times. He should have listened the first time.”
You press further, ” Even so, what do you think he really learned.?
“Well, you can be sure he won’t make that mistake again!
What do you think of this teacher? Was he a good teacher? I don’t think so. I wonder if God thinks the same of us when we use corporal punishment to “teach a lesson” to his children who are on loan to us. ….
Scripture Does Not Support Spanking
The Old Testament does have two references to corporal punishment, which are the mainstay of its proponents’ biblical defense. These are Proverbs 23:13 and Sirach 30:1-3. …
Ultimately, the Old Testament must be understood through the prism of the New Testament - the fulfillment of the law. Indeed, the Fathers of the Church, saints and prelates from St. Hilary of Poitiers, St. Cyprian, St. Ambrose, St. Martin of Tours and St. Leo, consistently declared that the severe sanctions of the Old Testament were abrogated by the mild and gentle laws of Christ. The New Testament has a very different way of dealing with sinners than did the Old Testament. As an example, let us examine the parable of the Prodigal Son.
A son hurts his father deeply by abandoning righteous ways and pursuing a life of sin and folly. This the father knows. In response, does the father hunt down the child to give him a beating for the “open act of willful disobedience?” No. The father, being a wise man, allows his son to experience the logical consequences of his actions until he is so racked with sadness, estrangement and guilt that he comes running back to his father. The father then throws a party for the prodigal son. To celebrate the son’s immoral behavior? No, to celebrate the victory of Love over sin.
Some punishment. Is God a pushover? No. He simply does not add any harm he could do to us to the harm we have already chosen for ourselves. The father of the prodigal concentrates on a more important motivator: building a relationship that is so strong, so undeniably loving, that the son will never want to “leave His house” again.
You anti spanking people are not getting the point the issue is the parents rights to bring up their own children and not have the state dictating their rights and responsibilities and calling spanking child abuse and then jailing them or removing their children.
I could waste all day arguing what is appropriate discipline from the Bible and some of you are still not going to see it that way.
Let me just say one or two things on that issue in the time that I have. Discipline can be punishment if the punishment is for discipline.
Love does no wrong to a neighbor but it is not love to let your neighbor bring distruction to themselves or others. In that case, love is to bring discipline and punishment when necessary. When someone is shooting up the local mall it is not love to let him to continue to kill people if I have a weapon of punishment to stop him.
You make the ridiculous assumption that there are only two passages in the Old Testament about corporal punishment. Much of the Old Testament speaks about the ultimate corporal punishment to be carried out on those who put the nation at risk by their apostasy and rebellion against God.
Even the New Testament gives examples of corporal punishment. Ananias and Sapphira come to mind. Luke 12;47 talks about a servant being beaten with many stripes for knowing what to do and not doing it. The NT scriptures talk about government having the sword to bring punishment on wrong doers etc. The Bible even says that under the millennial rule of Jesus unruly people and kids who disrespect their parents will be killed. So your arguments against physical punishment from the point of view of the Bible just do not hold water for these and many more reasons.