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	<title>Comments on: Psychology emerging in Christianity</title>
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	<description>Trends in the world and the Church in these last days</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 06:17:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: el-Nasrani</title>
		<link>http://www.thepropheticyears.com/wordpress/2008/04/27/psychology-emerging-in-christanity.html/comment-page-1/#comment-579</link>
		<dc:creator>el-Nasrani</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:36:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepropheticyears.com/wordpress/2008/04/27/psychology-emerging-in-christanity.html#comment-579</guid>
		<description>Ok, looks like I should better check before posting. Too many mixed up sentences today..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, looks like I should better check before posting. Too many mixed up sentences today..</p>
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		<title>By: el-Nasrani</title>
		<link>http://www.thepropheticyears.com/wordpress/2008/04/27/psychology-emerging-in-christanity.html/comment-page-1/#comment-578</link>
		<dc:creator>el-Nasrani</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:34:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepropheticyears.com/wordpress/2008/04/27/psychology-emerging-in-christanity.html#comment-578</guid>
		<description>I see. It's basically pretty much the same as with like the whole global warming issue then. 

I think you're right in calling them "perceived" strengths. I suppose people do have certain strengths or weaknesses but then of course some of what the (pop) psychologists call "strengths" might just as well be vices from a biblical point of view or how we to what use we put one of our "strengths". For instance, one person's "strenght" is to be productive and goal-oriented. But if that person puts his energy in wrong things that keep him from God and sets sinful goals that, say, make him neglect his duties towards family, it makes you wonder how much of a "strenght" that person's productiveness really is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see. It&#8217;s basically pretty much the same as with like the whole global warming issue then. </p>
<p>I think you&#8217;re right in calling them &#8220;perceived&#8221; strengths. I suppose people do have certain strengths or weaknesses but then of course some of what the (pop) psychologists call &#8220;strengths&#8221; might just as well be vices from a biblical point of view or how we to what use we put one of our &#8220;strengths&#8221;. For instance, one person&#8217;s &#8220;strenght&#8221; is to be productive and goal-oriented. But if that person puts his energy in wrong things that keep him from God and sets sinful goals that, say, make him neglect his duties towards family, it makes you wonder how much of a &#8220;strenght&#8221; that person&#8217;s productiveness really is.</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://www.thepropheticyears.com/wordpress/2008/04/27/psychology-emerging-in-christanity.html/comment-page-1/#comment-577</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 14:10:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepropheticyears.com/wordpress/2008/04/27/psychology-emerging-in-christanity.html#comment-577</guid>
		<description>Some companies actually force you to wear a color coded name tag at work so that when other employees deal with you they will know how to talk to you, so you won't hurt their feelings or something. Its really nutty stuff and its based out of the junk science branch of junk science psychology. Even professional psychologists discredit temperament typing. But corporate and government social engineers can't get enough of it, and the general population loves it because like astrology it gives them excuses for their flaws and lets them flaunt perceived strengths.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some companies actually force you to wear a color coded name tag at work so that when other employees deal with you they will know how to talk to you, so you won&#8217;t hurt their feelings or something. Its really nutty stuff and its based out of the junk science branch of junk science psychology. Even professional psychologists discredit temperament typing. But corporate and government social engineers can&#8217;t get enough of it, and the general population loves it because like astrology it gives them excuses for their flaws and lets them flaunt perceived strengths.</p>
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		<title>By: el-Nasrani</title>
		<link>http://www.thepropheticyears.com/wordpress/2008/04/27/psychology-emerging-in-christanity.html/comment-page-1/#comment-576</link>
		<dc:creator>el-Nasrani</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepropheticyears.com/wordpress/2008/04/27/psychology-emerging-in-christanity.html#comment-576</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I like how you put that in the last two sentences. That pretty much sums it all up.

I read your article on this issue a long time ago. I'm going to read it again in the coming days. I recall reading about Warren's Saddleback church using it and how its getting applied to company staff too. 

It's quite scary when you think of it. They start grouping people based on their temparement. In fact, I have to say that I've noticed myself how easy it is to try identifying people's temparement and seeing them differently because of that. It is not at all how we are supposed to act towards others as Christians. Many of those psychology things are pagan thinking. As is often the case, they may contain some truth but they remain deceptive and therefore qualify as lies.

It's impossible to belong to "one" temperament. People are too complex and each individual differs. Sure there's groups of people that have similar characters. But from what I've noticed myself, just a few years ago, I was said to be a "melancholic" mostly. Now I'm much more of a "choleric". But nobody's a full blown "melancholic" or "choleric" or whatever else. And who says I might not have a few "sanguine" or "phlegmatic" traits? Then of course you may wonder whether there's such a thing as those four temperaments in the first place. My take? No, there isn't. People can change overtime. People are affected and influenced by their environment, their families, some youth subculture they choose to identify with, or religious values. All these affect one's personality and set you apart from others. 

We should judge ourselves based on the list of vices in Galatians and the fruits of the Spirit found in the same epistle. We must aim at being fruitful Christians rather than becoming a "good choleric" or a "good phlegmatic" or whatever. I think your personality traits aren't there for nothing and if we live through the Spirit I believe some of those traits can be put to good use but it will differ for each and every individual. As is the case with talents, for instance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I like how you put that in the last two sentences. That pretty much sums it all up.</p>
<p>I read your article on this issue a long time ago. I&#8217;m going to read it again in the coming days. I recall reading about Warren&#8217;s Saddleback church using it and how its getting applied to company staff too. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s quite scary when you think of it. They start grouping people based on their temparement. In fact, I have to say that I&#8217;ve noticed myself how easy it is to try identifying people&#8217;s temparement and seeing them differently because of that. It is not at all how we are supposed to act towards others as Christians. Many of those psychology things are pagan thinking. As is often the case, they may contain some truth but they remain deceptive and therefore qualify as lies.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s impossible to belong to &#8220;one&#8221; temperament. People are too complex and each individual differs. Sure there&#8217;s groups of people that have similar characters. But from what I&#8217;ve noticed myself, just a few years ago, I was said to be a &#8220;melancholic&#8221; mostly. Now I&#8217;m much more of a &#8220;choleric&#8221;. But nobody&#8217;s a full blown &#8220;melancholic&#8221; or &#8220;choleric&#8221; or whatever else. And who says I might not have a few &#8220;sanguine&#8221; or &#8220;phlegmatic&#8221; traits? Then of course you may wonder whether there&#8217;s such a thing as those four temperaments in the first place. My take? No, there isn&#8217;t. People can change overtime. People are affected and influenced by their environment, their families, some youth subculture they choose to identify with, or religious values. All these affect one&#8217;s personality and set you apart from others. </p>
<p>We should judge ourselves based on the list of vices in Galatians and the fruits of the Spirit found in the same epistle. We must aim at being fruitful Christians rather than becoming a &#8220;good choleric&#8221; or a &#8220;good phlegmatic&#8221; or whatever. I think your personality traits aren&#8217;t there for nothing and if we live through the Spirit I believe some of those traits can be put to good use but it will differ for each and every individual. As is the case with talents, for instance.</p>
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		<title>By: Health Professionals on The Finance World For News and Information Around The World On Finance &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Psychology emerging in Christianity</title>
		<link>http://www.thepropheticyears.com/wordpress/2008/04/27/psychology-emerging-in-christanity.html/comment-page-1/#comment-572</link>
		<dc:creator>Health Professionals on The Finance World For News and Information Around The World On Finance &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Psychology emerging in Christianity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepropheticyears.com/wordpress/2008/04/27/psychology-emerging-in-christanity.html#comment-572</guid>
		<description>[...] Psychology emerging in Christianity Many Christian leaders understand that moral relativism is a plague on society but for some reason t [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Psychology emerging in Christianity Many Christian leaders understand that moral relativism is a plague on society but for some reason t [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://www.thepropheticyears.com/wordpress/2008/04/27/psychology-emerging-in-christanity.html/comment-page-1/#comment-571</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:06:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepropheticyears.com/wordpress/2008/04/27/psychology-emerging-in-christanity.html#comment-571</guid>
		<description>Much of what you said is also said in the link to the article I wrote that covers psychology in the church and temperament typing. The link is in my previous comment above.

One reason why everyone has done this temperament typing  is that it is part of many Christian seminars and studies and bible colleges. I believe Saddleback (Rick Warren's church) makes you take a course that includes temperament typing to even become a member.

Another reason is that it is part of diversity training required in most corporations and the U.S. government. It also is part of government vocational rehab programs etc. (which all proves that there is nothing Christian about it).

Like Astrology it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. If you are led to believe you are a certain way you will tend to act the part.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Much of what you said is also said in the link to the article I wrote that covers psychology in the church and temperament typing. The link is in my previous comment above.</p>
<p>One reason why everyone has done this temperament typing  is that it is part of many Christian seminars and studies and bible colleges. I believe Saddleback (Rick Warren&#8217;s church) makes you take a course that includes temperament typing to even become a member.</p>
<p>Another reason is that it is part of diversity training required in most corporations and the U.S. government. It also is part of government vocational rehab programs etc. (which all proves that there is nothing Christian about it).</p>
<p>Like Astrology it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. If you are led to believe you are a certain way you will tend to act the part.</p>
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		<title>By: el-Nasrani</title>
		<link>http://www.thepropheticyears.com/wordpress/2008/04/27/psychology-emerging-in-christanity.html/comment-page-1/#comment-570</link>
		<dc:creator>el-Nasrani</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 12:17:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepropheticyears.com/wordpress/2008/04/27/psychology-emerging-in-christanity.html#comment-570</guid>
		<description>It has a long-standing tradition in the Catholic church too. Just do some searches on the four classical temperaments ("choleric", "melancholic", "sanguine" and "phlegmatic") and you'll see. There's also the modern Keirsey test that is based on this. Temperament testing isn't a "Christian" thing though, it predated Christianity and was found amongst the Greeks and Ancient Egyptians.

Those temparements test are very tempting because you are lead to think it will help you to better understand yourself. I won't deny that I've taken lots of these tests myself too, either out of curiousity, boredom or just "for the fun" of it. The thing is when you start taking these things *seriously*, rather than aiming at being Christ-like and transformed in His image, you are lead to think you can change yourself by focusing on your temparement's "strengths". It leads to you to idealize your temperament(s) and forget that as Christians we ought to focus on Christ and live by His example. I'm not making this up, I'm talking from my own experience.

I do think we all have been created with something as a "temperament", or a "character". We all have different personalities as we're all individuals. God can use our character or personalities for some purpose and it's not a bad thing to know yourself. Moses, Joseph, Daniel, Jacob and Esau, Isaac and Ishmael.. They all had different personalities, their strengths and weaknesses.

But the problem with (pop) psychology is that they emphasize developing your personality by focusing on your own perceived "strengths." As a Christian, I think it's wiser to be aware of your weaknesses (or rather, sinfulness) and therefore humble ourselves and follow the Shepherd rather than trusting in our own selves. The Holy Spirit transforms people, you can't do so by your own will power. In my own pride I have often rebeled at that. I guess it's typically human. But ultimately you must face it - nobody is worthy of glory but God because without Him we are absolutely lost. No psychiatrist is ever going to change anything about that simple Truth.

ps: there's no scriptural support for anything like the 4 temperements. Those who claim otherwise are turning the Bible upside down trying to find some hidden esoteric knowledge in there which really is blasphemy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It has a long-standing tradition in the Catholic church too. Just do some searches on the four classical temperaments (&#8221;choleric&#8221;, &#8220;melancholic&#8221;, &#8220;sanguine&#8221; and &#8220;phlegmatic&#8221;) and you&#8217;ll see. There&#8217;s also the modern Keirsey test that is based on this. Temperament testing isn&#8217;t a &#8220;Christian&#8221; thing though, it predated Christianity and was found amongst the Greeks and Ancient Egyptians.</p>
<p>Those temparements test are very tempting because you are lead to think it will help you to better understand yourself. I won&#8217;t deny that I&#8217;ve taken lots of these tests myself too, either out of curiousity, boredom or just &#8220;for the fun&#8221; of it. The thing is when you start taking these things *seriously*, rather than aiming at being Christ-like and transformed in His image, you are lead to think you can change yourself by focusing on your temparement&#8217;s &#8220;strengths&#8221;. It leads to you to idealize your temperament(s) and forget that as Christians we ought to focus on Christ and live by His example. I&#8217;m not making this up, I&#8217;m talking from my own experience.</p>
<p>I do think we all have been created with something as a &#8220;temperament&#8221;, or a &#8220;character&#8221;. We all have different personalities as we&#8217;re all individuals. God can use our character or personalities for some purpose and it&#8217;s not a bad thing to know yourself. Moses, Joseph, Daniel, Jacob and Esau, Isaac and Ishmael.. They all had different personalities, their strengths and weaknesses.</p>
<p>But the problem with (pop) psychology is that they emphasize developing your personality by focusing on your own perceived &#8220;strengths.&#8221; As a Christian, I think it&#8217;s wiser to be aware of your weaknesses (or rather, sinfulness) and therefore humble ourselves and follow the Shepherd rather than trusting in our own selves. The Holy Spirit transforms people, you can&#8217;t do so by your own will power. In my own pride I have often rebeled at that. I guess it&#8217;s typically human. But ultimately you must face it - nobody is worthy of glory but God because without Him we are absolutely lost. No psychiatrist is ever going to change anything about that simple Truth.</p>
<p>ps: there&#8217;s no scriptural support for anything like the 4 temperements. Those who claim otherwise are turning the Bible upside down trying to find some hidden esoteric knowledge in there which really is blasphemy</p>
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		<title>By: Lauren</title>
		<link>http://www.thepropheticyears.com/wordpress/2008/04/27/psychology-emerging-in-christanity.html/comment-page-1/#comment-569</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 01:23:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thank you for answering my question, and for the link to your article. It was very interesting and informative. I knew something didn't seem right about  temperment testing but it confused me that so many Christian ministies seemed into it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for answering my question, and for the link to your article. It was very interesting and informative. I knew something didn&#8217;t seem right about  temperment testing but it confused me that so many Christian ministies seemed into it.</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://www.thepropheticyears.com/wordpress/2008/04/27/psychology-emerging-in-christanity.html/comment-page-1/#comment-568</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 00:31:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thepropheticyears.com/wordpress/2008/04/27/psychology-emerging-in-christanity.html#comment-568</guid>
		<description>Yes temperament testing originates from the psychotherapy theories of psychology which is really the psychology that I am talking about. 

Temperament typing is one of the deceptive practices in the church and yes, it is very much like astrology. I wrote about temperament typing in the following article. (this is a long article look about half way down for the psychology section - there is also an excellent link in the article to even more information called "Tim Lahaye and Psychoheresy" Yes, Tim Lahaye's early books popularized temperament typing it in the church)

http://www.thepropheticyears.com/comments/The%20woman%20on%20the%20beast%20in%20end%20time%20prophecy%20has%20dominion%20theology.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes temperament testing originates from the psychotherapy theories of psychology which is really the psychology that I am talking about. </p>
<p>Temperament typing is one of the deceptive practices in the church and yes, it is very much like astrology. I wrote about temperament typing in the following article. (this is a long article look about half way down for the psychology section - there is also an excellent link in the article to even more information called &#8220;Tim Lahaye and Psychoheresy&#8221; Yes, Tim Lahaye&#8217;s early books popularized temperament typing it in the church)</p>
<p><a href="http://www.thepropheticyears.com/comments/The%20woman%20on%20the%20beast%20in%20end%20time%20prophecy%20has%20dominion%20theology.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.thepropheticyears.com/comments/The%20woman%20on%20the%20beast%20in%20end%20time%20prophecy%20has%20dominion%20theology.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Lauren</title>
		<link>http://www.thepropheticyears.com/wordpress/2008/04/27/psychology-emerging-in-christanity.html/comment-page-1/#comment-567</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Apr 2008 23:42:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Is "temperment testing" part of psychology? I have seen several ministries, including Joyce Meyer and Jim Bakker recommend that your temperment be tested to see which of 4 basic temperments you have. One of them is called "melancholy", but I can't remember what the other 3 are. It sounded like hogwash to me, almost like going by your "astrological sign" or something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is &#8220;temperment testing&#8221; part of psychology? I have seen several ministries, including Joyce Meyer and Jim Bakker recommend that your temperment be tested to see which of 4 basic temperments you have. One of them is called &#8220;melancholy&#8221;, but I can&#8217;t remember what the other 3 are. It sounded like hogwash to me, almost like going by your &#8220;astrological sign&#8221; or something.</p>
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