It does not even matter if Hebrew scholars agree on various word differences. I do not even know why you brought this issue up in relation to the prophets. For in the prophecies we are talking about huge passages not single word differences like “a young woman” vs a “virgin”. By the way, I believe the commissioned Hebrews translated the word as “virgin” in the Septuagint. But both are true. She was a young woman and a virgin.

You said the prophets were done by the Gentiles so I figured you did not consider them scriptures since Gentiles are so error prone according to Jewish Hebrew scholars. You can’t have it both ways.

Again you have not shown me one written example of a future prophecy not being fulfilled because someone repented. All prophecy are fulfilled exactly. God knows the end from the beginning. The places in the Bible where God does not carry out His judgment as He said He would it is also recorded why He did not and they are recorded for our example. You confuse God’s historical account with His future all knowing word. His prophets would have recorded in future prophecies that people repented if that was the case just like they did when the prophets wrote about the repentance of Israel just before their future restoration. The prophecies written cannot be wrong because God knows everything and His written word is unchangeable.

Why was the trinity only revealed in the NT with a human form of God you asked? The trinity is revealed in the Bible. God said let US make man in OUR own image. He was not talking to Himself. There are other examples but why waste my time? The New Testament is clearer because it is the Old Testament revealed. The Messiah had to come to show the truth in the Old Testament concealed. That is why you were waiting for the Messiah to show you all things. There are many things that you cannot see because your forefathers rejected your Messiah and twisted the eye witness accounts of Jews who died to give the testimony of Jesus. Your not going to see the things concealed until you accept your Messiah. Fortunately for you He will reveal Himself the second time like Joseph did to his brothers.

How do I explain God forsaking Jesus on the cross.? Jesus took our sins upon Himself and God cannot look upon sin and it is written “cursed is anyone who hangs on a tree”. The curse of sin is death. Jesus died and then sin was paid for. But death could not hold the Creator and He made an open display by rising from the dead. Now all who trust in the righteousness of God to fulfill the blood requirement for sin fulfilled in His Son Jesus will be saved. You well know that your scriptures declare that God would send Israel a Messiah who would be a man and yet more than a man.

Mark 12:35 And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the Son of David?
36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
37 David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.

Psalm 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

Who can sit at God’s right hand but someone without sin and who could be David’s Lord but the Messiah? Notice also we have the Holy Spirit in the picture. So right here you also have the trinity: the Lord, David’s Lord and the Holy Spirit.

Jesus was still the Lamb sacrifice given by God for sin no matter how you spin the passover offering. You cannot benefit from the death of a lamb because God would provide His own and did.

I am not bound, I am free in the Jewish Messiah but you are totally correct that you are bound by the law. The only solution is to find freedom in the Messiah promised.

Shalom

Why was a trinity only revealed in the NT along with a human form of god? How can you explain your messiah as quoting psalms asking G-d why has he forsaken him? The trinity mystery concept is a fair answer but a stretch considering it is not present in the tenach(Bible).

To clear up a common mistake the purpose of the korban pesach(passover offering) it was a korban shlumim(offering of peace) not a korban chattas(sin offering) it was a celebration of closeness to G-d hence we are required to eat from in a nice banquet it is not a sin offering which the sinner is not permit benifit from.

This is the end of my part in this thread, It has been an interesting and somewhat enlightening exchange. In the end you are bound to the NT as I am bound to the Torah Prophets and Writings and we both use these texts to see the rest of our world, this being the case there will be no easy solution to our differences.

I guess you do not think the account of your own prophets are scripture? No wonder Jews are so blind. Also don’t give me the crap about gentiles writing everything but the Tenach. You come here acting like some text scholar but you do not know what in the hell you are talking about. I suppose you think Gentiles wrote the dead sea scrolls as well and disguised themselves as Hebrews when they translated the Hebrew into the Greek Septuagint. You just are not credible.

Are you claiming that God changed His written word at the places you mentioned? So why even use them as examples? I specifically said show me one place where God changed HIS WRITTEN WORD because of repentance! The prophecies are His written word so you think God tells lies in His own written word?

God has written in His word that Israel will repent so He can restore them, so it is not like God does not know the future. Nevertheless, everything that God said will happen will occur before Israel’s repentance. It will all come to pass because God knows the end from the beginning.

God gave you His Son to cleanse you of your sins but Israel rejected Him and until you find out who your Messiah is and repent and say blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord you will die in your sins. All the merit in the world is not going to save you when you have already rejected Gods salvation. People are not saved by merit. People are not saved by their own good works. People are saved by believing in God’s good works through His Son. The exact Image of God was sent into the world to show us God’s nature but the leaders of Israel did not know Him. Think of Jesus as the only visible Image of God. The Father has been seen by no man. How can Rabbis love God when they reject His only begotten Son who is His exact Image. They cannot know God, what they are doing is expecting vain religious works to save them like all religions in the world. If you miss the whole focus of everything that God gave Israel in the scriptures how can you claim to follow Him or love Him? It is vain delusion.

The Temple Institute have their reasons for building a Temple but Christians ought to know they are building a temple for a man of sin who will enter it and claim to be above anything called God. So I do not think Christians should be overjoyed about helping them out and promoting their temple especially when the people building the temple are preaching a false hope about the world uniting around the temple before the return of Jesus Christ. The Temple actually will bring the worst time on this earth that ever was or ever will be. So much for wishful religious unity!

Your people are not righteous you are sinners like everyone else and Israel only inherits the land because God made that a unconditional covenant to your forefathers. It certainly is not because of your righteousness it was because of their faith in Him.

The comments section of a post on the Temple Institute is not the place to get into the mysteries of the Christian faith. Let me just say that God is one with both Jews and Christians. But if you were a text scholar you would know that the word “one” can also mean that God is “one” in Unity. Christians say God is revealed in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. All one in unity but three distinct persons. You are body soul and spirit yet you are one. You become one with your wife at marriage yet you are two people. Having said that, there are no perfect examples of the trinity to explain how God can be three and one with our limited minds and that is why it is a mystery. Yet this triune God is integrated throughout the scriptures.

God did not break off to become human as you say. The Son of God always existed with the Father from eternity past. The Son became flesh and dwelt among us in order to save us from sin that Adam’s disobedience brought into the world. This Son also was the Creator of all things visible and invisible and He came to shed His blood and die as a sinless lamb to pay the blood price required in the law and He fulfilled the role of the Kinsman Redeemer. Jews do not even understand their own passover. Death could not hold the Creator and He arose from the dead and spoke a new creation into existence called the Body of Christ. Now all those who enter His Body by believing in His righteousness to save will be covered with His blood and saved from the coming wrath that is coming upon this world because of sin.

What you fail to understand is that Christianity is not a difficult religion it is very simple. It is simply having a personal relationship with the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. Jesus was the one that led your forefathers out of Egypt before He became a man. If you understand that, you would come into His fellowship like the Jews that believed Jesus and founded Christianity did. You will find all this out one day.

Those that are believing what the Temple Institute are preaching will find the next holocaust where not a third of the world’s Jew’s will be killed as during the Second World War period but two thirds will be cut off like your own prophet declared.

Just a few places I think of as I type where G-d overturned his wrath because of repentance
golden calf, levite uprising, Cozby and Zimri, David after Batsheva, Ninveh, etc. My G-d is ONE and perfect almighty creator and he forgives, please read about when G-d passed by Moses when he was hidden in the cleft of the rock. If you belive in our Torah as divinely inspired by the only Creator and King of all then you must also belive that Hashem is a loving and forgiving G-d in the many accounts where he is first slow to anger and then forgives and turns back his wrath. This is why even though we become weaker ever generation our Maker counts not only our merits but those of our fathers, he also accepts our penitance to cleanse our sins.
The time of Jacobs trouble may have been covered by the Holocaust, perhaps not, We pray we have merit to avoid that troubling prophecy. Even if not we will serve as we always have our Creator and will enjoy our comfort in the ressurection. In any case that will almost surely be quite soon.
The Temple Institute clearly focuses on the rebuilding of the temple, its job is to inspire Jews to hurry and do teshuva in love for their Maker, they think this works better than fear of punishment. There is no reason to berate them for choosing this angle. Repentance primarily out of love for G-d is greater than that of fear. If asked any Rabbi at the TI would verify the prophecies of great peril as well as those of the rebuilding and restoration.

All of Israel has a place in the world to come, our people are rightous and will inherit the land forever. For all of their faults and stumblings including that of our corrupt leadership class I think you see the Jews of today as evil, I see their potential, much of it being actualized even today, for much teshuva even under duress. That is one of the jobs of the Messiah, to inspire repentance. Most of the nation belives in G-d about half are observant, the rest are weak or ignorant and our job is to strengthen them.

To restate an earlier question, Why in the Jewish scriptures is G-d described as one and in yours as a trinity, and also why is there no mention of part of g-d breaking off to become a humanized g-d-messiah?

It may interest you that at next sundown we will begin the festival of Sukkot the feast of little huts and the taking of the 4 species during which 70 bulls were and will again be brought for the 70 nations of the world. Truly a celebration we can all enjoy when the creators plan is fully executed.

This is your board and I assume you can delete this whole conversation at will, I am only interested in a scholarly debate and clarification on what has always been a difficult to understand religion.

Where was God’s written word ever broken because of repentance? The only place where there was repentance it was also recorded in the passage that there was repentance. You have a mighty small God if you think He does not know in advance what nations will do or else you do not believe that your scriptures are His word. Besides that, where do you see repentance in the leaders of Israel when they are mostly secular humanist atheists? You really think you can go back to Temple worship now when most of the nation does not even believe or obey the Jewish God? He would just cast you out of the Land again.

The fact of the matter is that you still have a time coming called Jacob’s trouble Jer 30:7 and that 2/3 of all Jews in the land will be killed Zec 13:9 and through the fire a remnant 1/3 will finally repent. Only then will God save Israel. I would think that third that is refined through the fire is mostly the religious Jews in Israel today. Nevertheless, you will still go through the fire.

There will be no uniting of the world until all happens that your own prophets foretold. The Temple Institute can just pick the good scriptures and deny the scriptures about the future chastisement of Israel in the Land but it will not change the truth one iota.

Btw, I don’t believe it’s my job to convert a person to “Christianity.” I believe it is God who draws people to Him, the Holy Spirit who convinces of sin, and our task as individual Christians and as a Church to spread the Gospel of God’s Kingdom; not force “Christianity” as a religious system upon people as it happened so often in the past by people who were more concerned with power and lust than Biblical truth. Just look at for what reasons the Church of England was created, and you’ll see what I mean.

However, if I may add this critical observation: I respect Torah-abiding Jews, but I really regret that Messianic Jewish people in Israel report being harassed by orthodox Jews in Israel. Why are secular Israeli atheists that flat-out reject God, Torah and their Jewishness apparently less offensive to them than fellow Jews that have accepted Christ as the Messiah and keep Torah and Kashrut laws?

God bless you.

PS: sorry for being off-topic

http://www.ucg.org/booklets/jc/prophecy.htm

The proof that Jesus was the Messiah is obvious if you read the link with a opened mind.

The prophets predicted God would leave you Jews until you return to Him in many places. You were not cast out of the Land because you were so God fearing. All the way from the start God promised Israel a blessing and a curse. It is you that choose the curse by not obeying God and even now you are still under the curse because you will not return to God so that He can give you a blessing. Israel today is mostly unbelieving and its leadership is made up of secular humanists and atheists.

You also confuse the Catholic Church with Christianity. Some Catholics may be Christian but those that are do not massacre Jews.

The Temple Institute ought to read all the prophetic scriptures and not just pick and choose which ones they want to believe. In all the scriptures about a restoration of Israel there is always a last days literal and descriptive time of judgment just prior to God’s end time favor and mercy on Israel. Those that wish to keep their blinders on do so to their own peril. The thinking is postmodern because prophetic truth is what the Temple Institute rabbis want it to be rather than what the scriptures they have clearly indicate it is. One cannot read these scriptures in a literal sense and come to their conclusions.