Ro 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

A great many Jews did accept the Messiah or their never would have been a NT Church. Yet, Israel as a nation did not believe God. Sure Israel was blinded in part so grace could be given to all but I do not think God made anyone in Israel become unbelievers. Nevertheless, God did have chosen vessels that did attain salvation by faith.

In any case God still has a plan for natural Israel in the Millennium so the nation will be restored but only after they are refined through the fires of the tribulation. Remember that 2/3 of the Jews will still be cut off from the land. Not all ethnic Jews are true Jews. One must believe to be a true Jew or a true Christian for that matter. There are the tares among us.

Actually Jesus taught in parables so those blinded by Satan (the tares) in Israel would not see. That is explain in Matthew chapter 13.

Peter said that the Holy Spirit has already been poured out on all flesh in Acts 2 16-18. Anyone that calls on the name of the Lord in this dispensation of grace to all people on earth will be saved (Rom 10:13). Best that Jews choose to do it before the time of Jacob’s trouble but most will not..

Actually in the final analysis, all this becomes a God’s sovereignty/predestination versus free will argument and nobody has every solved that one to the satisfaction of any vast majority.

The distinction I thought I saw was that except for the “in part” portion of Jews that Paul speaks of (those Jews who we know have accepted Jesus as Messiah), how could the majority of Jews at that time and to the present have known they were rejecting the Messiah if their hearts were made imperceptive, their eyes were blinded and their ears made deaf by God to thecoming of Jesus as the lamb of God in 33 AD?

The Jews did and do not know or comprehend their holy books regarding Christ and the prophecies of His coming. So deaf and blind and unknowing were the Jews that Jesus was forced to attempt to expalin things to Jews in simplisitc parables. In short, the Jews were rendered cluesless over the past 25 to 27 generations due to their unbelief.

At some point just prior to Ez 39:29 God is going to reverse all that, and the bride is going to be outa here.

God has not poured out His Spirit on the Jews but will do so at some point

It really is a chicken or egg argument. Sure Israel was blinded but I think Israel was blinded due to her unbelief. Was the blinding all part of God’s plan? Of course. Judas was also blinded to God’s plan but he reaps the consequences of his own actions. As does Israel today. It gets into the old God’s sovereignty/predestination, free will argument. Both are scriptural truths but how they both can be true is beyond man’s limited understanding.

“God really has poured out his Spirit on all flesh that will believe since Pentecost but Israel has rejected Jesus and thus rejected the gift of the Holy Spirit as well.”

This is not consistent with my understanding of Deuteronomy 29:4, Isaiah 29:10 and the entirety of Romans 11, and verse 25 in particular. As a direct result of their unbelief coming out of Egypt, Israel was denied a perceptive heart, was blinded and deafened (in part) and thus did not know the hour of their visitation.

Within His sovereignty God will make Israel’s heart perceptive, her eyes to see and ears to hear when He pours out His Spirit, and they will look upon Him whom they pieced… this is the Covenant God made with Israel per Isaiah 59:20-21, and Romans 11:29-32.

I agree. I cannot imagine that the burning continuines into the second 42 months when, in prophetic fact, we know with absolute certainty the Jews will be doing nothing of the sort per the words of our Lord as recorded in Matthew 24:15-22.

I also agree that the physical mass and sheer numbers of the assorted weaponry does not constitute just that which is burned. The Lord tells Ezekiel quite clearly (verse 10) that some of that weaponry is taken and burned and the remainder is taken as the “plunder” and “pillage”spoils of war.

What? Israel would invade, occupy, plunder and pillage Russia, Turkey, Iran, Libya and Sudan and the rest of Magog’s confederation. No, they will not. Those lands are reserved for the judgment made clear in 38:22. Instead what occurs is that Israel recieves some portion of Gog/Magog weaponry as spoil. Spoil which amounts to an increase of riches and wealth when sold, or kept thus saving Israel’s treasury from expending funds for new weaponry.

I do not believe the man who will be Antichrist is known at this time – the “Covenant Among many” has not yet been brought into existence. Thus not only is he not known, he is not feared. Moreover, the nations of the world will not fear him as he arrives as a peacemaker, and as Jesus said “him you will receive.” The conquering Antichrist appears 42 months later upon being indwelt by Abaddon/Apollyon and committing the Abomination of Desolation.

Sean, you ask

“How do the 144,000 in Revelation 7 – the beginning of Daniel’s 70th Week – become believers in Christ if not for the Lord’s pouring out of His Spirit?”

God really has poured out his Spirit on all flesh that will believe since Pentecost but Israel has rejected Jesus and thus rejected the gift of the Holy Spirit as well.

I think these 144,000 will encounter Jesus and receive the Holy Spirit like Paul did by God’s grace. They are chosen vessels of God before the time of Israel’s repentance.

God cannot pour out His Sprint on the whole house of Israel because of their unbelief. But when Israel sees Him coming (Zec 12:10) they will repent and believe. The sequence of events described in the passage puts it in the time that all nations come against Israel at the end of the tribulation. The nation of Israel has been like doubting Thomas they will not believe until they see Him. When they do see Him coming they will believe and they will not reject Him like the armies of the world that the Antichrist is bringing against Him.

But, blessed are they that not seeing still believe (the Church).

It is doubtful that the Ezekiel invaders only bring 7 years worth of weapons to burn. They could have 8, 9, or maybe even 15 years of weapons worth of fuel. I think it possible that the reason they burn weapons only for 7 years is because that period ends at the mid – trib point and the Jews are fleeing from the Antichrist genocidal assault.

In essence Israelis could have more enemy weapons to burn, but that’s not important to them at the time. They are probably more concerned about the existential threat of the Antichrist and that is what limits the weapons burning to only 7 years.

I agree, those are conjecture and speculations which are refuted by a closer examination of Scripture.

I’m probably repeating my belief here, but I believe that Ezekiel 38/39 ocurs just prior to Daniel’s 70th week based upon the past tense grammar found in Ezekiel 39:29 (And I will not hide My face from them anymore; for I shall have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel,’ says the Lord GOD.) which is repeated no matter which particular translation one reads.

How do the 144,000 in Revelation 7 – the beginning of Daniel’s 70th Week – become believers in Christ if not for the Lord’s ouring out of His Spirit?

The Harpazo had occured in Revelation 4.

And with 12,000 coming from all 12 tribes of Israel they are truly and literally representative of “all Israel” as Paul states “all Israel shall be saved” in Romans 11.

If the timing of the Gog war was as simple as you make it out to be we would all be in agreement. It is not that simple.