Debunking a Muslim Beast Antichrist
Lately there has been a whole lot of teachers getting on the Antichrist will come from Islam and that Islam is the Beast world system bandwagon.
Apparently painting Antichrist horns on the obvious evil system of our time sells books but is is good theology? I posted a article why I do not believe the Beast will emerge from Islam or why the Beast will be Muslim.
Dr Reagan has written a very scholarly work why the Antichrist will not be a Muslim.
Now Bill Salus in the article I quote below gives more good reasons why the Antichrist will not come from Islam. This is a two part series. I will add a link to the second part when I receive it.
I think the main reason people are now believing that the Antichrist is from Islam is the impact Islam is having on the world and the Assyrian references in the Bible. There are thirteen Assyrian references in the Bible but most of them do not refer to the end times and the ones that might do not have to be associated with the Antichrist. Even if the Antichrist is Assyrian by birth it does not mean that he is Muslim or that he had been living in that area prior to the days when the world headquarters in moved to the area of Babylon.
For example, Some Americans call Obama an African but by Africans he would be called an American. He certainly is not an African through his mother. He once lived in other nations but now he resides in America. He claims to be a Christian although Muslims would say he was Muslim because once a Muslim always a Muslim. In like manor the Antichrist could identify with Christianity, have lived in Iraq, but come to power through a revived Roman Empire. I am not saying that he will be Assyrian, I do not know his decent but it is also not out of the question that he will be raised in the area of Assyria. Nevertheless, even if he were Assyrian that would not make him a Muslim. When he rises to power no matter where he was born he will identify with the pseudo Christian West much like Obama does (no I am not saying that Obama is the Antichrist).
I think believing that the Antichrist is Muslim can be a big danger and a trap because I believe the real Antichrist comes into power through the wars against Islamic fundamentalism. So those who fall into the trap of making an Islamic Beast might actually help create the platform for the Western Beast Antichrist to stand on and rise to power and take over the world as the world’s savior from Islam.
I also want to point out something else. Believing that Islam is the Beast system is not at all logical. It is obvious that Islam with all its laws will never be accepted by the decadent West. It is also obvious that any system that unappealing to the West could never take over the world by force. So the logic of a Beast Antichrist out of Islam escapes me. Also, if the Beast were Muslim and his God was Allah why would he demand to be worshiped as God? Those in Islam will never accept the worship of a man claiming to be God. The whole concept of an Islam Antichrist is fantasy.
PROPHECY DEPOT: Does Daniel Debunk the Assyrian Antichrist?
Relatively recently a small circle of individuals have injected into the Christian Church a paradigm shift in Antichrist thinking. They advocate that this beastly individual has Assyrian origins. Oddly the book of Daniel, which seemingly issues the most pivotal prophecy regarding the origin of this personage, does not once mention the Hebrew word Ashur, or Ashshur, which is translated as Assyria, or Assyrian. This term is utilized within the Old Testament approximately 135 times; however, Daniel considered by many to be a prophetic authority on the subject of the Antichrist, apparently didn’t feel the Assyrian shoe fit the foot of this coming crazed world leader.
Perhaps one might think that Daniel was given information about the Antichrist, but not necessarily about his ancestral roots. However, Daniel 9:26 refutes this presumption in that it gives us the most detailed literal account within the entirety of scripture as to the origin of this individual. Therein we are informed that the Antichrist will originate from the people who would eventually destroy the city of Jerusalem, and the sanctuary, referring to the second Jewish temple.
There are two primary arguments against the Eastern leg being the leg from which the Antichrist comes: the “Historical” and the “Prophetical”. The Historical argument will conclude part one of this article and the Prophetical will be discussed in part two.
Date posted: Saturday, January 10th, 2009 2:13 pm | Under category: Beast/Antichrist, Bible prophecy teachers, Europe/EU/Revised Roman Empire, Islam
RSS 2.0 | Comment | Trackback
For heaven’s sake, how can people be so naive to think the Antichrist would have to be a Muslim based on the Assyrian reference given the fact that virtually all modern-day Assyrians or Syriacs belong to Syriac Christianity? Middle-Eastern does not equate Muslim and Arab. I’m not saying I don’t understand why some are lead to believe the Antichrist may be a Muslim, but based on that one Assyrian reference? Incredible. Also, I must say I’ve never quite had the impression there was any revelation regarding the Antichrist’s identity and the most likely scenario for me would be that he’s a Jew. But if his ethnicity were of any significant importance, the Bible would have told us about it don’t you think?
He might have a Jewish connection but since he comes out of the sea (Gentiles) if he does have Jewish blood it might will not be obvious to the world or he could be a Jew by blood but a leader in a gentile nation.
The false prophet comes out of the Land so he almost certainly is a Rabbi in Israel.
I saw Jack Van Impe say on tv last week that unsaved pregnant women would be taken to heaven in the Rapture to give birth to their babies. That isn’t true is it?
No, it is not true and makes no sense. Van Impe has said many stupid unbiblical things that leads me to believe that he lacks discernment and is really mainly interested in keeping a large TV following.
This whole Musli-Assyrian Anti-Christ thing seem to be a flavor of the current times. And those who hold to this view are sometimes quite venomous in their defense of it. Of course they have it all figured out. The Hal Lindseys, Tim Lahayes and others have it all wrong. They have it all figured out and woe to those who disagree.
As one who holds to a Pre-trib Rapture view point, I think we could have an inkling of the identity of the Beast, but will not know for sure because we’ll be caught out before he is revealed. And personally, I really don’t care who the Antichrist is because I am not looking for him. I’m looking for the Lord Jesus Christ, the faithful and true one; not too early, not too late, but just at the perfect time!
That’s my king!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE2jZV43dl0&feature=related
GBU
Kevin
If it is impossible for Antichrist to be Muslim, then you might want to take on the three challenges below?
THE DEBATE OVER
ANTICHRIST
By Walid Shoebat
THE THREE CHALLENGES
Does the beast of Revelation involve Middle Eastern Muslim nations, is it exclusively European, or is it both? Some say the notion that Islam could play a prominent role in the coming revival of the Roman Empire is impossible, unorthodox, untraditional, the work of ‘Lone Ranger’ type interpretation, and even revisionist.. 1
The majority of American evangelicals believe that the Antichrist system must be exclusively European, yet this view is changing after the last few years with the rise of Islam.
So, could Islam play a role in this end-times scenario? You might think to yourself—so what? Why should we care? Well, why then did the Almighty give us Daniel and Revelations? Even better still — why did God give us all the Messianic prophesies regarding Jesus’ first coming? Careless followers that missed these ended up without salvation, regardless of whether they sacrificed lambs in the Temple or obeyed the law—when it comes to the issue of Messiah, they missed the most crucial event in history. All for not paying close attention to Bible Prophecy. And what about the second coming? Are we to be careless with respect to the evidence presented in the Bible? I am not saying that you could lose your salvation, but if you end up on the side of Antichrist, you never had salvation in the first place.
Yet today, the debate is brewing—what about the threat of Islam? Did the Bible warn us about it? Are we supposed to keep our focus exclusively on Europe?
To shed light on the implications of such detailed evidence (which spawned countless challenges and questions) I decided to write God’s War on Terror regarding Islam’s involvement in end-times. Consequently, I get challenges daily, not only by Muslims that want me dead but also from Christians who are dogmatic about their views. Ironically, we have no record of any Christian minister killed for exposing the E.U. as the work of Satan, yet we have millions who gave their lives for standing up to Islam. So please allow me to alleviate some pressure and present you with only three challenges:
CHALLENGE 1: Did traditional Prophecy scholars teach that Europe is exclusively the Antichrist kingdom?
You might be shocked to know that the highest caliber commentators of old did not believe that Europe was the exclusive player in the End-Times. A revival of a Roman Empire never meant a revival of a European Empire.
Many of our best western scholars on Bible prophecy believed that Islam would be a major player and will revive in the end of days as part of this end-time beast. John Wesley interpreted the Iron in Daniel 2 as Islam (Works, 1841). Hilaire Belloc foresaw Islam‘s rise.2 Gregory Palamus of Thessalonica interpreted the martyrdom of Christians during the Great Tribulation to come from Islam. Josiah Litch interpreted Revelation as the ushering in of Islam.3 He even described the magnitude of Islam’s role being Antichrist to the extent of calling it the “general agreement among Christians, especially protestant commentators.” Cyril of Jerusalem (315-368 A.D) in his Divine Institutes believed that Antichrist proceeds forth from the region of ancient Syria 4, which today extends from Syria well into portions of Asia Minor (Turkey). Sophronius, Patriarch of Jerusalem (560-638) and Maximus the Confessor (580-662) identified Islam with Antichrist and lived through Islam’s invasion of Jerusalem. Maximus was also an important theologian and scholar of the early Church who helped defeat the Monothelite heresy referred to the Muslim invasions as “announcing the advent of the Antichrist.” John of Damascus (676-749) was another very important figure in the early church. In his famous book, Against Heresies, he identified Islam as the forerunner to the Antichrist. Eulogius, Paul Alvarus and the Martyrs of Cordova (9th century) believed Muhammad to be a false prophet and the precursor to the Antichrist. 5 Many are not aware that while Martin Luther, father of the Protestant Reformation, believed that the Papacy played the role of the spiritual harlot, he also believed that the Muslims were the Kingdom of Antichrist. 6
John Calvin interpreted Daniel 2 eastern leg as the Eastern-Roman Islamic Empire and that Daniel 11:37 applied to the Muslims. 7 Even Jonathan Edwards the great American congregational preacher, revivalist, and president of Princeton University, like Luther and Calvin, saw Islam as one of the premiere elements of the Antichrist Kingdom. 8 Calvin even interpreted Islam’s fall at the sound of the great trumpet 9 Islam falling at the sound of the great trumpet even carries Islam into the Great Tribulation and not as many of our contemporary prophecy analysts who allege that Islam must be removed prior to Christ coming.
Even Sir Robert Anderson, perhaps one of the best prophecy experts who unlocked the seventy weeks of Daniel, in his remarkable book The Coming Prince, insists to focus on the Levant (Eastern) parts rather than the Adriatic (West). 10
Countless other Bible commentators warned about Islam being the kingdom of Antichrist—Selnecker, Nigrinus, Chytraeus, Bullinger, Foxe, Napier, Pareus, John Cotton, Thomas Parker, Increase Mather, Cotton Mather, and George Stanley Faber. 11
Also added to the list is Rev. Professor Dr. Francis Nigel Lee who sums up the traditional view in his excellent work Islam in the Bible: “from the seventh century onward – [the two legs] would degenerate respectively into the Papacy (which progressively took over the West) and Islam (which progressively took over the East.” (p. 5)
Making Europe the exclusive body of Antichrist kingdom is not the orthodox or even the traditional view. Some insist that Antichrist is Italian since he comes from the Roman Empire, but Roman does not strictly mean Italian, just as Alexander the Great was Grecian, this does not mean Athenian—he was from Macedonia. Antiochus Epiphanies, another biblical prediction was Syrian not Athenian or Cypriot. Why then, when it comes to Antichrist, insist on an Italian ignoring the whole empire. Even Jesus insisted that Pergamum in Revelation 2:12-13, was the seat of Satan and not the gymnastically altered interpretation for an archeological relic that sits in Berlin.
While contemporary prophesy analysts trumpet the idea that the fourth composite of Daniel 2 iron metal as strictly European, traditionalist views differ. Dr. Matthew Henry comments: “Who is this enemy—whose rise, reign and ruin are here foretold? Interpreters are not in agreement. Some will have the Fourth Kingdom to be that of the Seleucidae and the ‘little horn’ to be Antiochus…. Others will have the Fourth Kingdom to be that of the Romans, and the ‘little horn’ to be Julius Caesar and the succeeding emperors, as Calvin says. The Antichrist, the Papal Kingdom, says Mr. Joseph Mede.
Others make the ‘little horn’ to be the Turkish Empire [Muslim]; so Luther, Vatablus, and others. Now I cannot prove either side to be in the wrong. Therefore, since prophecies sometimes have many fulfillments, we ought to give Scripture its full latitude (in this as in many other controversies)—I am willing to allow that they are both in the right.” 12
NORTH AFRICA
Most students of prophecy that ascribe to a revival of the Roman Empire ignore that North Africa (Phut) encompasses five Muslim nations historically part of the western wing of the Roman Empire, and already mentioned literally in several end-times references. In order for the exclusively European model to fit, the whole of this Muslim region must be irrelevant. So what part of the Roman pie do we slice off and what parts do we include?
CONTEMPORARY VS TRADITIONAL
So what happened? Why do we have such a variation between contemporary versus traditional? The problem began in 1981 when Greece joined as the tenth nation in the European Union and many sounded a false alarm that announced they unlocked the mystery and have the fulfillment of Revelation 17, all with its ten horns, to later be embarrassed when the European Union mushroomed into twenty some nations.
Instead of pulling back their books, these analysts ran back to the drawing board, not to confess their error, but to insist that the E.U. model must shrink to only ten.. They still chose to finagle with the theory. Some, like Arnold Fruchtenbaum, realized that this was wrong: “It has become common today to refer to the ten kingdoms as being in Europe only, especially the Former Common Market, now the European Union. But the text does not allow for this kind of interpretation. At the very best, the European Union might become one of the ten, but it could hardly become all of the ten.” 13
According to Fruchtenbaum, the European model comprises only one tenth, a mere slice of the whole pie. Jamieson Fausset & Brown insist that, “the ten toes are not upon the one foot (the west), as these interpretations require, but on the two (east and west) together, so that any theory which makes the ten kingdoms belong to the west alone must err.”
CHALLENGE 2: Besides the argument on whether Magog is Russia, can anyone cite any literal reference to a nation that God destroys in the End-Times that is not Muslim?
Only if you ponder this question can you grasp its magnitude. On one occasion during a lecture to a group of prominent Bible prophecy teachers in the Pre-Trib Prophecy Conference in Dallas, I asked this question and no one raised a hand to answer.
In frustration, I pointed to Dr. Randall Price, a known Prophecy teacher and asked him to respond, in which he pointed that when it comes to literal references there are none. Grant Jeffrey, another known author, once attempted to respond with Cush, not realizing that biblical Cush (a reference sometimes translated as Ethiopia) is defined in the Unger Bible Dictionary as a landmass south of Egypt. Today this will be Sudan and Somalia.
Grant Jeffrey chose one of the most fundamentalist Muslim nations as a response to find non-Muslim nations in end-times. David Reagan of the Lion and Lamb Ministries with frustration pointed to Mystery Babylon 14 ignoring that the crucial word in that question is “literal”. If Babylon is a response to cite any literal reference for a non-Muslim nation that God destroys, this would still support my view— Mystery Babylon is an allegoric reference.
CHALLENGE 3: In every portrayal of Christ’s return to the earth, is He not fighting a nation that today is Muslim?
The significance of this question is as follows —scholars are unanimous, that Christ’s second coming must happen after Antichrist appears on the scene. Christ’s mission will be to destroy Antichrist and establish His Millennium kingdom. The European Union model has the Muslim hordes destroyed before the Tribulation period. Yet the text shows that Messiah Himself deals with Muslim nations.
The next prophecy conference you attend ask, “Is Jesus on earth on the Day of the Lord?” Ezekiel tells us of that day, “For the day is near, even the Day of the Lord is near” (Ezekiel 30:3). Yet this is when “Cush and Phut, Lydia [Turkey] and all Arabia, Libya and the people of the covenant land will fall by the sword along with Egypt” (Ezekiel 30:5). Other prophesies show these nations are cast into Hell, including Asshur – “Iraq – Syria”, (Ezekiel 32:22-23) Elam – “Iran” (Ezekiel 32:24-25) Meshech & Tubal “Asia minor—Turkey” (Ezekiel 32:26) – Edom – “Arabia” (Ezekiel 32:29). These nations are punished for striking terror against Israel and the believers (Ezekiel 32:22-24 & 27).
Perhaps sharing a few from the volume of hundreds of prophecies of Jesus’ wars during the Great Tribulation can shed more light on the matter: “See Jehovah rides on a swift cloud and is coming to Egypt. The idols of Egypt tremble before him, and the hearts of the Egyptians melt within them” (Isaiah 19). Does this remind you of the song “behold He comes riding on the clouds”? Yet rarely are we told that Jesus here is fighting Egypt—a Muslim nation.
Even in Christ’s judgment of the nations (Joel 3) He is fighting Muslim entities. “Now what have you against me, O Tyre and Sidon [Lebanon] and all you regions of Philistia [Gaza]” (Joel 3:4) It couldn’t be more clear! It was as if Jesus Himself was speaking directly to Hezbollah (Tyre and Sidon) and Hamas (Philistia), challenging them regarding their bloodlust against the Jewish people. Their fight against Israel is in reality a declaration of war on the King Himself.
In Isaiah 25:9-10 at the time of the Lord’s return, we have Christ fighting Moab “And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for Him, and He will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for Him, we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation. For in this mountain shall the hand of the LORD rest, and Moab shall be trodden down under Him, even as straw is trodden down for the dunghill.” (Isaiah 25:9-10).
Even in Isaiah 63, scholars unanimously agree that He fights Edom (Arabia).
Are the Muslim nations in prophecy destroyed prior to the Christ’s coming? Will the Antichrist then establish his European rule? Can anyone find a verse in the Bible in which Christ fights and nations are literally mentioned which are not Muslim?
This is why many who exclusively see Europe as Antichrist insist on removing Islam from the scene prior to the coming of Christ. Since the Muslims still exist on earth upon the Lord’s return fighting against Him, their whole premise of an exclusively European Antichrist falls apart.
Walid Shoebat, God’s War on Terror http://www.Shoebat.com (720)935-2826
REFERENCES
1 Lamplighter Newsletter, David Reagan, January 2009 edition.
2 The Great Heresies, chapter 4 March, 1936, page 127-128
3 Hosiah Litch, The Three Woe Trumpets, Fall of The Ottoman Empire, August 11, 1840
4 Divine Institutes, 7:17
5 Paul Alvarus, Memoriale sanctorum 2.4
6 Martin Luther, Tischreden, Weimer ed., 1, No. 330
7 Calvin On Islam Revelation Prof. Dr. Francis Nigel Lee, Lamp Trimmers El Paso, 2000
8 Jonathan Edwards, The Fall of Antichrist, Part VII, page 395, New York, Published by S. Converse 1829
9 Jonathan Edwards, The Fall of Antichrist, Part VII, page 399, New York, Published by S. Converse 1829
10 The Coming Prince, Page 273
11 Froom: op. cit., II pp. 323f, 325f, 331, 340f, 412f, 458 & 518f and also III pp. 40f, 74f, 125-31, 149, 183, 240f, &352f.
12 M. Henry: A Commentary on the Holy Bible, with Practical Remarks andObservations, London: Marshall Bros. Ltd., n.d., IV:1270f.
13 Fruchtenbaum, Footsteps of the Messiah, page 36
14 Lamplighter Newsletter, David Reagan, January 2009 edition.
I already did on this post.
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/wordpress/2009/01/15/bible-prophecy-wars-over-an-antichrist-out-of-islam.html
But I will repeat what I said in response to those challenges here
I am aware of Shoebat’s three challenges. They were made on http://www.propheizine.com and I gave a partical response to them through Bill Salus who is now about to submit a response to the part of the challenge that no non Muslim nations are mentioned in these end time wars against Israel. I think if you read the various posts I have made on this subject on this Blog I would not have to repeat it all here. Also, keep in mind that Islam does play a role in end time prophecy. There will be a war against Islam in these end times but it is not because the Beast comes out of Islam. The war with Islam will set the stage for the Antichrist to rise out of the MU (not the EU).
Christians are being persecuted all over the world so don’t think it strange that those who attack Islam will be attacked by those who follow Islam. Attack the beliefs of Hindus or Buddhists and you might receive threats from them as well. In any case, threats in itself prove nothing about where the Antichrist originates.
First, let me say no one is saying that Islam is not antichrist and anti Israel. But so was Hitler and the Communists. All sinners who reject Christ are antichrist but that does not mean Islam is the Harlot of Revelation like some now claim. I write that all false religion since Babylon is the Harlot and after the Religious wars of the near future only a form of pluralistic Universal religion will be allowed to be practiced on the earth because any religious fundamentalism will be seen as a threat to world peace. So the Harlot of Revelation is all antichrist religion and not just Islam. What we see in Revelation 17 is the culmination of the great Harlot since ancient Babylon. The make up of the end time Harlot will be all who join with the acceptable world pluralist religion and not just a more politically correct peaceful form of Islam.
The first challenge really is pretty week.
What classical writers wrote about Islam hundreds of years ago does not carry much weight for correct eschatology today They knew little about these issues, most were amillennial. Obviously some people of any time would think that the enemy of their day would fulfill the prophecies of the Antichrist just as some thought the Catholic Church would or Hitler would or Communism would. For every classical scholar you can come up with that claims the Antichrist will come out of Islam I think ten can be found that say the Antichrist will come out Catholicism. Besides, where else would those who held the eschatology views of Catholicsm think the Antichrist would come from? So just picking those who support your views and ignoring those that do not support your view does not add weight to your theory.
The fact is the Antichrist will come out of neither Islam or Catholicism per say, unless the name of the pluralist universalist politically correct world religion will once again be called Catholicism.
The Second challenge was answered in the blog I wrote last summer and my recent emails to Bill Salus.
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/wordpress/2008/07/24/will-the-antichrist-and-his-beast-government-come-from-islam.html
Email one
To Bill Salus.
I personally think that the Antichrist will come out of the MU not the EU because the MU has the exact same nations as the Roman Empire. That does leave the possibility of an Assyrian Antichrist but that does not mean he has to be Assyrian and it certainly does not mean that he is a Muslim. I read most of the arguments for why they claim the Antichrist is Muslim but it is easy to build a one sided case. Obviously, Islam is antichrist but that does not mean it will produce the Antichrist or the Beast system. Obviously, there will be massive wars against the Muslim nations of the world but that does not mean that Jesus Christ is coming to battle against Islam. The nations that today are Muslim will obviously be followers of the Antichrist when he arrives because ..duh.. most of these people are not Christians and Islam was always antichrist. That does not mean that the Antichrist is from Islam it just means that most that occupy those nations are antichrist and anti Israel and they will accept the Antichrist.
It is obvious that when Jesus comes he will destroy those nations around Israel because the bible says so, and the nations around Israel display that they hate Israel. As you know that is a blood feud and it is not going to change if Islam becomes pluralistic or even Catholic. What is Islam today becomes just another member of the world Harlot after the religious wars.
It also is not honest to scripture to say that the Antichrist is just going to be regional. The Bible is clear that he will control the whole world and that no one can buy or sell without the mark of the Beast. The whole world looks at the slain prophets and rejoices not just what are today’s Muslim nations. The judgments are also worldwide in the end. Those who limit the Antichrist to Islam and the Middle East are very near sighted. They take a very weak position on the Antichrist. Like he will be some Islamic hero and not a supernatural being.
No, the Bible is clear that Satan will be cast out of heaven and when he is woe to the people on the earth because he knows his time is short. Satan will incarnate this man and all of Satan’s angels will support him. It will be like Zeus came to earth with all his lesser gods and that is who he may claim to be. His power will be incredible and absolute and if Jesus did not come back to save the elect no flesh would be saved.
The people writing about a Muslim Antichrist are setting people up the for accepting the real Antichrist. As I said before, the great deception will probably be that the Antichrist will have claimed to have killed the Antichrist and the False Prophet when in reality he killed the two witnesses of God. So with that deception the whole world will rejoice and be ready to go into his counterfeit Kingdom of God. But, to get into his kingdom you have to take his mark. It has absolutely nothing to do with Islam. He will claim no religion because he will claim to be God.
It really is not necessary to try to refute each point of their arguments because their arguments are very subjective and in the eye of the beholder. So I just take the logical position. There simply is no way that the Western world is going to put itself under the bondage of Islam. It is not going to happen and there is nothing in the Bible that portrays a world under Islamic law in the last days. On the contrary, everyone is doing what is right in their own eyes like in the days of Noah. The NT makes it very clear that in the last days men will be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God. That is only possible under the permissiveness of the West.
They then would argue that the Antichrist is a regional conflict with Islam but that is not what the Bible teaches about this man and his kingdom. Those who take up the fight against Islam in the coming religious wars might just find that they are really putting the Antichrist in a position of power.”
Email 2 to Bill Salus.
“Jesus will be coming to judge all nations. The nations mentioned in prophecy were given as a witness against them and so we that we could properly discern end time events and the three different wars mentioned in the prophecies. Some nations near Israel receive a very harsh judgment not because they are Muslim but because of how they treated Israel. Perhaps Mr. Shoebat should consider that this statement in Revelation chapter 16 is literal.
16:12 ¶ And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
And these passages as well,
Isa 34:2 For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.
Jer 30:11 For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee
Joe 3:2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Re 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
Re 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Re 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
Zep 3:8 ¶ Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.
Joe 3:9 ¶ Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up: Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong. Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD. Let the heat hen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
Jesus will judge all nations not just those nations around Israel that are Muslim today. When the kings of the East come with their hordes from nations east of the Euphrates will China and India be Muslim? Not likely. And will Islam fight against them causing the death of a third of mankind? Not likely, with what? Also the Lord says in Isiah and Revelation that He is going to shake the whole earth and all small and great will go in caves and holes in the ground. This is not describing a regional event and neither do many of the other judgments describe the end time judgments limited to Muslim nations around Israel.
One other specific thing in Isaiah is that the Day of the Lord will come against the ships of Tar’ shish. The ships of Tar’ shish are not Muslim.
What these writers fail to understand is that Islamic nations have no real military power they are not going to become a world power anytime soon. The US, Israel and NATO would make a short work of them on the battlefield. A few nukes and old tanks does not make a world power.”
Less than half of all Muslims in the world live in the lands mentioned in prophecy. So using their own logic that only Muslim nations are named, why are not all these other nations mentioned as well if the fight is against Islam and its Antichrist? By the way, the claim is that Islam is the Harlot of Revelation but Jesus does not come back to fight the Harlot she is burned by the Beast before the return of Christ. So why does the Beast out of Islam destroy itself?
Challenge three,
was really answered by number two. Just because all the nations around Israel are Muslim does not mean that Jesus will come to fight Islam. He will come to fight against the Antichrist who gathers all nations of the world to fight against the Lord.
Cherry picking scriptures is hardly an infallible argument. Most scholars will say there are three wars. The war of Psalm 83 the war of Ezekiel 38 and 39 and the Armageddon campaign where the three demons that come out of the mouth of the Antichrist and False prophet deceive all the kings of the earth to come with all their armies against the land of Israel. Obviously the prior wars before this are dealing with people who are practicing Islam but those wars take place before the Antichrist is even on the scene. So when you cherry pick scriptures make sure you are picking the right scriptures for the right war.
Again I do not claim that the Antichrist has to come out of the EU. I claim he will come out of the MU because the EU does not reflect the lands of the Ancient Roman Empire but the MU does. That in no way suggests that Islam is going to give birth to the Beast. What Islam really reflects is that most in that region of the world have rejected Jesus Christ and when the Antichrist comes, being dead in their sins they will be all to eager to be deceived and embrace the Antichrist as God. Maybe just like in Biblical times they will call him Baal or Zeus rather than the God of the Quran.
As for Islam and Turkey and the Muslim nations being able to fight the West and win is simply not possible. Those who actually believe that Islam is a threat to take over the world are about on par with those that think man’s CO2 will cause run away global warming and destroy the world. These ideas are based on junk science, Junk eschatology and junk logic.
So that’s my response about an Islamic Antichrist anything further can be found on my blogs and the comments I made on them.
The following article presents some very good arguments for an Assyrian antichrist. The writer also says that it is possible that the Antichrist will appear on the secene as a ”Christian” politician since the assyrians are Christians and suggests that later on after his covenant with Israel he could convert to Islam and Allah, possibly the god of war mentioned in Daniel 11:38. Read the article in the following link:
http://www.beastfromtheeast.org/Debunking_European_Antichrist.html
God bless!
You failed to mention that Rodrigo Silva wrote the article that you provided the link to and he not only also claims an Assyrian Antichrist he wrote an article posted on Prophezine in rebuttal of Dr. Reagan’s critical article. As I said above I do not discount an Assyrian Antichrist possibility but I am for the reasons I already stated above 100 percent certain that the Beast of Revelation is not Islam and also certain that the Antichrist will not convert to Islam like Silva suggests in his article. On the contrary those now in Islam and all false religion will convert to follow the Antichrist.
The article talks about the arrogance of scholars like Dr. Reagan but notice that Dr. Reagan has a PhD and about fifty years of ministry in this area. I also see these credentials on Bible prophecy experts who for the most part support Dr. Reagan’s views but I am not seeing credentials or experience from his rather arrogant critics.
One problem I am seeing with all these new comers in Bible prophecy who either think the tribulation will come in 2012 AD or that Islam is the Beast or Harlot of Revelation is that they come up with a theory and then they search for only the scriptures and scant historical evidence that supports their theory and they disregard the stuff that does not fit. They then write a book on Bible prophecy with some strange twist and instantly they are accepted by some as prophecy experts. They might first learn from the experts and build on what they taught. Instead they tear down what the experts taught and claim in their books that they got it wrong and they have it right. They present some new theory that tends to itch the ears of those looking for a fight with Islam or looking for the Antichrist to appear next week. If you notice most of these people do not believe in a pre-tribulation rapture so they obviously think Christians are going to fight the Islam Beast. .
If there is arrogance it is those who come on the scene majoring in minors and then calling the teaching of these eminent Bible scholars that critique them arrogant. If they think they have the truth lets see them get their own theories through a doctoral dissertation and the required defense of what they claim. I know that saying this is not going to win me a popularity contest but if you notice these new theories are mostly written by new Christian converts and snot nosed kids. How in the world did they instantly acquire the in-depth knowledge and understanding of Eschatology that it took people like Dr. Reagan a life time to learn?
By the way, the comments on Bill Salus’ blog answered most of what was said in Silva’s article about the claim that the people who destroyed the temple were Assyrian. That theory simply does not hold water prophetically or historically. See the comments on that blog to find out why.
http://prophecydepot.blogspot.com/2009/01/does-daniel-debunk-assyrian-antichrist.html
Don,
You give too much credential to the ”experts” and forrget that God does not necessarily choose people with Ph.D letters after their names to be used by Him. Jesus chose a bunch of uneducated fishermen to do his work, not the scholars of His day who had their Ph.Ds. These guys who you call experts are just parrots who have been repeating what other before them had said. When you look in the mirror and see a scholar, no longer you think that there is more to be learned and God cannot give you new insights because he knows you will not accept them. He then must choose people who He knows will be humble and open to the voice of the spirit. People who consider themselves ‘’scholars” think they have everything figured out just like the pharisees of old thought they had eveything figured out. Just because Reagan has a doctorate before his name and has been in business for fifity years, does not mean he has all the answers. He made claims in newsletter which cannot be supported by historical facts such as the Romans ordering the destruction of the Temple. What kind of a Dr. is he who makes claims like that and cannot support them historically? These so called scholars love to flatter each other so they can have their egos puffed up.
I give too much credit to the experts? I guess you believe that I should believe people who do not know what they are talking about? God chooses people to teach in the Church who study to show themselves approved. People with PhD’s in theology are scholars and they had to have done some study or they would not have a PhD. I am not saying that people without PhD’s cannot learn from self study but I do not see how these new converts or young people could have done the work required.
You call scholars parrots of other teachers and so they are. Learned people learn from the teaching of others. Those who do not are self deluded know-it-all’s. If you did not have these so called parrots you would have no scholarship or theology today. After all, we are talking about correct discernment and interpretation of the scriptures and that is done through building on the work of others through study, prayer and God given wisdom and understanding. You are insulting people who spent their whole lives studying and teaching theology by comparing them to unbelieving pharisees!
These are men of God who studied to show themselves approved in what they teach. I cannot say the same for most of the current wave of instant “experts”. You also assume that these mature men of God can no longer learn? What spirit would make you say that? Could it be the spirit found in the books of this new wave of “experts”? To say that a Christian filled with the Spirit can no longer learn is an insult to the Spirit who works through them.
It seems to me the thinking of postmodernism has also entered into eschatology where now everything once thought true has to be redefined because the truth is no longer relevant to what some want to believe. They want to believe that Jesus is coming in 2013 so they just make it so. They want to believe that the Antichrist comes from Islam so they just make it so. Never mind about teaching sound doctrine.
You also are assuming that God is using this “new wave” for good. I am not so sure of that. I think most of them at best are building on the house of God with straw. Most that are on the 2012 bandwagon are mixing pagan thought with Christianity and leading some into a form of harlotry. Others that are on the Islam bandwagon are setting up the “Christian” world to accept an anti Islamic leader who will turn out to be the real Antichrist. Most are also opposing the doctrine of the Rapture the blessed hope for the faithful Church. In addition, they are attacking those trained in Bible prophecy and those teaching sound doctrine causing confusion and division among Christians. They also will be just another wave of Bible prophecy teachers who will turn out to be wrong and open the teaching of Bible prophecy to more scorn by the world and even the Church. I know many have been converted to Christ through the teaching of scholars like like Reagan, LaHaye and Lindsey. Perhaps some are also converting to Christianity through the books of this “new wave” but for some reason I know of none.
Everyone makes mistakes and no one is one hundred percent correct on everything in Bible prophecy. But you are also wrong in what you claim.
Whats all the stuff about Muslim Antichrist. Isn’t Obama the Antichrist?
No.
Well answered, Don!
There’s a trend to mock the likes of Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye by certain other “Christians”. I know that the stand-out reason is their particular eschatological viewpoint. Yet these two men have done more to bring people to Christ than their mockers. I can personally vouch for Hal’s influence.
Just because something is new does not make it right. Just because something is new does not make it wrong.
BTW, I don’t see how Dr Reagan is wrong about the Romans. Regardless of what the ethnicity of the people who destroyed the Temple was, they were acting under ROME.
Oh and people should really get their own eschatological houses in order before they go picking on the system that the likes of Showers, Thomas and Mayhue capably defend.
The Antichrist will come out of Egypt on his road to his public ministry that will be intended for three or more years and he will be an Arab religious leader that will use Europe as his base of operation.
By chips in the hand the Antichrist will be drawing crowds in stadiums to worship him for jobs and food. Do not get taken in by this great deceiver and false christ.
I have told you to look to the skies for omens and signs of the end times. As the Antichrist comes to power, he will use lasers and mirrors to make large images appear in the sky. These seeming miracles of light will be illusions and tricks to get people to worship the Antichrist. Do not believe any of his lies or believe in any supposed miracles for these will be the deceptions of the Antichrist. You will need strength to avoid the Antichrist and refuse his mark for buying and selling.
When you see any construction of a temple near this wall in Jerusalem, you will know the time of the Antichrist is at hand.
I have given you notice that the Hale-Bopp comet was a sign of the Antichrist’s coming and that he is already on the earth. It will not be long that those willing to have the mark of the beast will have it all over the world and this will be the time when the Antichrist will announce his coming to power. I have told you also that the comet of Christ triumph is also on its way and that will mean the end of the reign of the Antichrist, just as he will come to full power. When you see the Antichrist’s coming evident in our time of tribulation, you will know his days are numbered and Christ coming will be imminent.
These evil ones will want to kill Christ faithful to eliminate His Catholic Church on earth, but the gates of hell will not prevail over Christ remnant Church.
These evil powerful people are well aware of God messengers and His messages being conveyed through them. That is why God messengers will be attacked by these evil ones so their words will be silenced. Because God wants His messengers to carry out their mission that God has given them, God will send His angels to give His messengers protection from poison, snake bites, and the like just as God gave such power to His apostles.(Mark 16:17-18) His messengers will have healing powers and they will use their gifts during the tribulation. In order to remain spiritually strong to battle all of the evil spirits and evil people, His messengers must pray and fast often and keep our souls cleansed by frequent Confession.
Those who post here contribute to the discussion they do not just post their own demented delusions. By the way, you have told nobody nothing here until now and you also proved that you have nothing worthwhile to say about this topic. Any other such nonsense will just be deleted.
The reliance on Dan 9:26 to prove a AC related to the Romans is actually very week. The article http://al-mahdi.atspace.com/peopleofprince.html discusses five different interpretations of this verse.
The objection that the Muslims will definitely not worship al-Mahdi is actually possible. In fact there is a bizzare incident recorded in the Qur’an regarding Allah’s command for the angels and jins to prostrate before Adam. see http://al-mahdi.atspace.com/claim2bgod.html for a possbile scenario, even though the article was addressing the Muslims. The Quran’ic precedent icannot be ignored.
Actually the arguments on the link you provided to this Muslim Antichrist site are very weak.
There is no al-Mahdi he is a Muslim fable that only a minority of Muslims believe anyway. Fables do not come out of a well and become the world leader Antichrist. The whole argument is ridiculous. Satan incarnates a man not a silly fable.
Whether al-Mahdi is a fable or not does not change the fact that Muslims believe in and are looking forward to his coming and preparing to gather around him and support him.
The Qur’an itself contains many fables (eg. the apocryphal story of Jesus speaking from the cradle, etc), yet Muslims are dead serious about its truth, and act accordingly. We may think of it as a fable, but Muslims do not, and that is what matters to their behavior. They do not follow our beat, but their own (and that of Satan). How Satan does not inhabit a silly fable is irrelevant. What is important is that Muslims believe so, and act upon them. Many Muslim groups are working for the creation of the Caliphate (of course the current Muslim govts won’t be so easy going… but the common believers are looking forward to it.)
You also seem to think that Mahdism is a belief of the Shiites only (based on “only a minority of Muslims”). Not so. Mainstream Sunnis also believe in the coming of al-Mahdi, Isa (Muslim version of Jesus) to assist him, and ad-Dajjal (Muslim version of Antichrist). The article http://al-mahdi.atspace.com/al-mahdi.html documents carefully many Sahih hadiths (Sunni) in these characters. The article http://al-mahdi.atspace.com/isa.html talks about Isa’s role in the End Times. Many Sunni theologians and writers have written about al-Mahdi.
The main difference between Shiite Mahdism and Sunni Mahdism is that Shiites believe that al-Mahdi is the 12th Imam, while Sunnis do not have any identiable person as yet. It will not help the matter to confuse them. In any case, al-Mahdi is said to be recognized by a group of people, so it really doesn’t matter much in the end. Other than the issue of identification, the majority of the charateristics of al-Mahdi and his exploits are the same in Shiism and Sunnism.
Your original article posits that it is impossible for al-Mahdi to actually claim to be worshipped and Muslims to follow him when he does so. The article I linked to presented:
1. a plausible scenario that is consistent with the Bible’s description. The worship does not happen until the second half (perhaps even later in the second half) of his reign, which by then is very late for the Muslims. By then, how many Muslims will be able to resist (to the point of death) in this reign of terror?
2. The bizzare incident in the Qur’an of Allah commanding all the angels and jinns to worship Adam. Iblis (i.e., Satan) refused and was banished to the earth. Muslim theologians have explained that it is a test of their faith and obedience. That is what Muslims will be facing as and when al-Mahdi claims that.
3. Isa, whom they regard as Allah’s prophet, will be in their midst. How many will dare to go against Allah’s prophet? (Recall that it will be the 2nd beast that made people worship the first beast in Rev 13). Muslims revere Muhammad to the extent of idolatory, even though they deny it (including following his turbans, bearsds, mannerism, etc). That kind of blind obedience and devotion is not something non-Muslims understand.
We are not talking about what Muslims believe we are talking about what Christians believe about the Antichrist. A Christian should not study pagan eschatology and use it as some proof text for Christian Eschatology. Many of the same people are doing the same thing with the Mayan 2012 pagan crap. In fact the authors feed on each others books to prove their theories.
The truth is that although some Sunnis believe in al-Mahdi they are a small minority and Shiities are also a minority of Muslims. In any case, what Muslim eschatology teaches has absolutely nothing to do with Christian truth. The problem with Muslim Antichrist proponents is that they seem to have more faith in the lies of Islam then they do in the teachings of the Bible.
I also never said what you claimed I said. I said, “Those in Islam will never accept the worship of a man claiming to be God” In Muslim eschatology the Mahdi never claims to be Allah. I never said that Muslims will not worship a man. Many of them apparently already worship their human leaders right now.
If people want to make an argument for a Muslim Antichrist prove it from the Christian scriptures and not from this counterfeit bastardization that takes Jewish scriptures and Christian scriptures and sorts them through the mental illness and demonic deception of Muhammad.
I agree. By all means, Islamic eschatology is a perversion of Christian eschatology meant to spread confusion. It’s not wrong to research it but only to better understand what it means in the context of Islam and to Muslims. Only the Bible should be used to establish Christian doctrine.
When discussing if Muslims will not worship a man (“as God” as you corrected me… my apologies), the most releva
nt place would but what the Qur’an and hadiths, which governs the lives of Muslims. The foundations (or loopholes
in my view), as I linked to, have already been laid out in Islam and the possibility of it happening are just th
ere waiting. (More about that later).
It is a misunderstanding to think that that non-Biblical prophecies are being used by proponents as a proof-text.
Rather, if al-Mahdi does indeed correspond to the AC, then Islam’s prophecies (appropriation of true Biblical pr
ophecies by Satan, or bastardization as you use it) dovetailing onto the prophecies of the Bible leads to a very
good and ready deception for a religion that currently forms about 20% of the world and growing. In fact, I do no
t believe that all the Islamic prophecies will come to pass, but enough to hold them in Satan’s grip. The yardsti
ck is and always will be the Bible. I do not have more faith in the lies of Islam than in the teachings of the Bi
ble (and the Mayan mud-sling, which I do not subscribe to, is irrelevant too). No more, more less. Let’s be clear
about that. Such assertions are unnecessary and unhelpful.
Dr. Timothy Furnish, a history professor who has a PhD in Islamic history, has many articles on Mahdism and the p
henomenon (http://mahdiwatch.org) — he doesn’t deal with AC paradigms on his site…. I don’t know what his pers
onal views are. Furnish said that “Mahdism is believed by many (including scholars, who should know better) to be
the province only of the Shi`is, but many of the most successful Mahdist movements in history have been Sunni.”
(see his article on History Nework: http://hnn.us/articles/13146.html). Mahdism (together with the restoration of
the Caliphate), has and continue, to hold sway in the lay Muslim’s fascination and thought, their antidote to th
e “decandence and failure” of the West (which they wrongly equate with Christianity).
In fact, many Christians are just as ignorant of the End Times events too, but we do not as a result conclude tha
t it won’t happen. If we were to ask Christians today, “how many of you will take the mark of the beast?” I’m sur
e most or perhaps all will say no way. Yet, we know from scripture, that a Great Apostasy is coming! You see, the
falling away has been prophesied in the Bible, and the theological justification for the worship of al-Mahdi has
been prepared in the Qur’an.
Coming back to “Those in Islam will never accept the worship of a man claiming to be God,” (my apologies for mist
akes in my quotation… I have problem rendering your blog in Firefox and Opera… part of the page is obscured b
y the long column on the right that extends even into the textbox, which shows up as much wider than the page, I’
m typing into), do you mean to say that the scenario I linked to be impossible? In what way is the scenario weak?
Coming back to scripture, 2 Thess 2:4 contains three “theos” and the last one is anarthrous theos in nominative.
Most translations render it as “God” (definite), and a minority render as “a god” (Geneva, NAB, etc). Many think
that the AC will claim to be God supreme. However Dan 11:39 also tells us that he will also honor a “god of fortr
esses”, and Rev 13:4 tells us that people will worship the dragon as well. In other words, whoever one thinks the
AC will be, the worship accorded to the AC will not be exclusive, but in subordination to his god (i.e, Satan)..
.. the Unholy Trinity imitating the Holy Trinity?
Also, the Greek word translated “claiming” in NIV is apodeknunta meaning “showing” (by proofs, demonstration, etc
). Dr. Randall Price uses “display himself as god” (he used small letter “god”). Clearly, the proofs to be proffe
red will dovetail with those of the False Prophet in Rev. 13. What this means is that the AC will demonstrate tha
t he is god, but still in subordination to his god (Satan). The fact that there is a new round of killings associ
ated with that worship (Rev 13:15) suggests that the new fodder for killings comes from his followers. Who is to
say there won’t be some of his followers who will wise up? The rest who did not want to die will simply take it a
s a test from Allah, or resign themselves to
fatalism (as Islam teaches).
blessings,
This is getting too long for a comment section on a blog post. So I will try to keep it short and to the point. I do not have a lot of time to spend on any one blog post anyway.
All the eschatological beliefs of Islam do not mean a hill of beans if Islam becomes incorporated into the Universal World Harlot religious system after the religious wars. That is my position on Islam and the three great monotheistic world religions. The Antichrist candidate will use the war against radical Islam to come into power by deception and conquest. I think Catholic Marian deception will be involved. After the religious wars all religion will be tolerant and they will be under the control of the Harlot in Rome. Any teaching that falls outside of Univeralistic doctrine will not be allowed because it will be seen as a threat to world peace (thus the reason for the persecution of the true Christian Church). Then after Satan is cast unto the earth and incarnates the Antichrist figure he will turn on the Harlot and claim to be the incarnation of God on earth and he will demand worship. His main power base will be from those in pagan spiritualism like those in Eastern religions and new age Oprahology, if you know what I mean.
The role Islam will play in this is to give the West a dire threat to fight against for the Antichrist to rise to power. Islam will bring on the war of Psalm 83 and be involved in the war of Ezekiel 38 and 39. The other role Islam will play is that all in Islam that continue to reject Jesus Christ will certainly be deceived by the Antichrist when he appears but not because he pretends to be a Muslim. He will appeal to all on earth who reject Jesus Christ. The problem with the Muslim Antichrist proponents is that they are really setting up the thinking that will allow the Antichrist to rise to power when a great leader appears in the wars against radical Islam. Then after the wars they will expect some kind of Christ to appear but that is really when Antichrist is revealed. So they are really setting themselves up for deception.
If you have problems reading this Blog in Foxfire or most browsers it is probably because your screen resolution is different than what this blog is best viewed at. Or more likely you have some issue with how you display data and how it wraps in your page setup. I use Foxfire and Explorer and I do not get overlap.
I am not going to get into the rest because it is a waste of time. The beliefs of Islam are irrelevant to Christian eschatology for the reasons I already stated.
I believe the antichrist to be Muslim. Revelation is centered in the middle east. This little horn will be fierce and speak against the most high. The two witnesses will grant protection as the new temple is being assembled in Jerusalem, with the hordes ready to strike when Gods powers leave the two. This head chopper will hate the harlot(Saudi Arabia) for not being true to its faith and prostituting itself with the west, and burn her with fire. Saudi sits on the Big Seven oilfields(mountains?) and the burning oil fields will send up smoke but there might be no one to put them out. The captains mourning over Babylon burning could be oil tanker crews. Saudi is the birthplace of Islam and the religion has mini towers, minarets, like babel towers? Also the new luxurious cities it is building, along with its mighty towers- skyscrapers, could be ready for destruction by the beast. Then he will step into the temple and declare himself allah, and have satan, the false prophet, and the image-icon to push the dark declaration. Jesus Christ is Lord! Also i would like to add, the wine of this mystery babylon the world got drunk on= OIL!!
I think it took some creative thought for you to come up with that loony tune
WOW ! The Bible is clear. Babylon gets drunk on the blood of the martyred saints through the centuries.
Loony tunes is right Don !
You searh the Scripture and you find not, but its simple.. Be it a person or a system, or a nation, the antichrist is rejection of Christ teaching. Than who reject Christ ? Who kill christian ? Who dominated this world with their sword dan law ? Who say that their law are from God of which are not… I think this is the true antichrist. ….
There are many that are antichrists but there is only one Beast/Antichrist
Don,
Sure.. billions antichrist and only one Beast ( leader). If there is no beast than there are no billions of followers and no system. But as we could see, the Beast is here into this world with their system and law and claimed all from God revealt through him. All of their teachings point to rejecting Christ teaching, they have a Christ in mind – ( another Christ). This is not a creative idea Don.. this is real.
Frankly James, I really do not know what you are talking about. On this thread we are talking about debunking that the Beast/ Antichrist the man in Revelation that is also described by the prophets. I am saying this man will not claim to be a Muslim. If you have some idea that the Beast/Antichrist is not a person your non literal interpretation of eschatology is just not going to fly here.
Well.. Don, simply the Beast is Mohammad and Islam is their system – the perfect antichrist.
But if you not felt that way.. its OK. All the best. I quit…
Islam is antichrist but so is all religion outside of Christianity. Muhammad was a sick demented man who is long dead and never was a king and could not be one of the seven Kings of Revelation 17:10-11. Muhammad is not going to rise from the dead and be the Antichrist.
Don.. i am giving a final stand. Muhamad is the beast and islam is a system, making them the perfect antichrist.
In a normal sense, Muhamad never was a king. But even the Saudi King rever him. So he is the perfect king of muslim world. The king of the kings.
And, Muhamad already died and never arise until the judgement day. Think again, his teaching and doctrine alive and grows more than christianty. Look at the US President now, half christian half muslim.
If in the near , or in distance future arise such a person to be antichrist, surely he is the follower of Muhamad, doing his will and islam system. So its clear that Muhamad is their leader and king
You are arguing from what you want to believe not anything found in the Bible. The Beast is an actual man with an actual world Kingdom it is not a religion. The Harlot is religion she is not the Beast, she rides the Beast and then the Beast destroys her (Rev chapter 17).
All on earth will worship the Beast/Antichrist. There simply is no way that you are going to get a secular humanist hedonistic world to submit to oppressive Sharia law of Islam. The Antichrist religious system in the final analysis will be a “New Age” concept where everyone is said to part of God if they identify with Him by taking the mark. Of course, the truth is that no one is of God unless they have been born from above into the Body of Christ.
have you noticed how the world is becoming more and more pro islam. it is required now to teach the islamic religion in many schools and universities. islam is spreading to every part of the world. islam WILL accept a man claiming to be god as long as they beleive he is the mahdi. the secular hedonists you mention will have no choice – the bible says those who don’t submit will be beheaded (islam’s preferred choice of executing). daniel metal image – head of gold – babylon
arms chest of silver – medopersia
belly thighs of bronze – greece, thighs representing two of the four divisions mention later in daniel – seleucic and ptolemy empires
legs of iron – the turkish ottoman empire. the bible says this empire “was, is not, and will be again for a short time. this islamic caliphate was abolished after wwi in 1923. it is now being revived again into an islamic union (not one empire, but a mixture of nation (iron and clay)
ten toes – this revived islamic caliphate.
the goal of the globalists (council of foreign relations, trilateral commission, bildebergers, united nations, etc. is to divide the world into ten regions. three are already formed – european, african, muslic; one is in the works, mexico, u.s. and canada. when all ten are formed, this seventh world empire, a global government, will be replace by an eight, the kingdom of the antichrist – the bible say, seven regions will submit to his kingdom peacefully, three will have to be conquered.
all of this IS in the bible, not just something we WANT to believe. and yes new age religion is part of the whore, but only a part. any religion that doesn’t put JESUS first is part of the whore religion. the bible says the antichrist/mahdi will come to power by deception – he will claim to be the mahdi so that all of islam welcome him. but the bible says he will not regard the god of his fathers. his ultimate purpose is the worship of himself. that is why eventually he must force people to worship him by receiving the mark.
it’s all very logical and makes perfect sense.
i agree with you that most prophecy teachers have most of it wrong because they teach that the european union is the revived roman empire. even if it is, it’s irrelevant . roman has nothing to do with end times, only the area surrounding israel – the same geographical area where all of the 7 world kingdoms have and will ruled – (1)egypt, (2)assyria, (3)babylon, (4)medopersio, (5)greece, (6)the ottoman empire, (7)the soon to be global government, and out of the seventh, and eighth king, the antichrist.
and also i do agree – jack vanimpe is a kook.
Todd,
I debated even posting your comment because it is such a mishmash of misinformation.
The world is not becoming more pro Islam. Hedonistic people in control of the world will never put themselves under Sharia Law, you can take that to the bank. There is a temporary alliance between the Left and Islam because they are using each other for their own advantage against conservatives and nationalists in the world. It will fail. There will be a backlash against Islam and the Left by the nationalists and the alliance between socialists and Islam will dissolve. A house divided cannot stand.
Most of Islam does not even believe in the Mahdi yet will Muslims accept a man as God.
Contrary to what you Muslim Antichrist proponents say, the Antichrist will be a very popular hero and world figure. He will not come out of Islam his power base will come from the people that will war against radical people and the states controlled by the radicals in Islam. He will have all the answers the hedonistic world wants to hear and that certainly is not Sharia law.
The ten toes is not the revived Islamic caliphate the two legs of Iron historically were undoubtedly the east and west parts of the Roman Empire not the Ottoman Empire.
The Antichrist could control ten nations, ten zones in the revived Roman Empire, or ten world zones or even all three. The Bible does not tells us anything other than there will be ten kings that give their power unto the Beast. Anything else about the makeup is conjecture and is not something found in the Bible contrary to your claim that the Bible says these things. If you can actually find what you said in the Bible lets have chapter and verse? What you are doing here is reading what you want to believe into what is actually said and then telling us it is in the Bible.
Again, the Bible does not say the Mahdi will come by deception the Bible does not mention a Mahdi at all. Neither does the Qu’ ran. Remember, the Antichrist and his mark comes after the Gospel of the Kingdom is taught to the whole world as a witness by the 144,000 and the two witnesses give their testimony in Jerusalem for 42 months. So no one is going to be able to claim that they were ignorant when they choose to take the mark. Those that take the mark rejected the truth (Jesus) and will willing believe in this counterfeit. By taking the Mark they are just showing they are sons of Satan (these are the tares).
I do not know who your agreeing with here it certainly is not me? The European Union is part of the area of the Roman Empire and the Roman Empire will be revived.
Rome has nothing to do with end times you say? Yet, Rome ruled the Middle East in the time that Jesus walked on the earth. So it has everything to do with end times. Had the Jews received Jesus as King of the Jews and establish the promised Kingdom on earth who would have been the opposition? It would have been the world power reigning over Israel. That was the Roman Empire. Nothing will change other than the timing, The delay is but a parentheses to give grace to the Gentiles. When the Jews receive their king it will be the revived Roman Empire that will oppose him. We see the restoration of Israel in the Land and in the same time period the revival of the Roman Empire is also taking place. This is not just a coincidence.
It is amazing that your can rewrite world history here and just take out the Roman Empire out of history just because you want to believe in a Muslim Antichrist.
Those who buy into this Islamic Antichrist baloney are marching in step to what Satan wants the world to believe, that is a false tribulation and a false Christ following. Satan is setting up a straw-man religion so the Antichrist can come to power as a hero when his power base defeats Islam and frees people in religious bondage. Then the world promotes this hero as their concept of the Christ.
Anyone who visits this “web blog” should seriously consider the level of true biblical discernment of any person who still follows the erroneous “rapture” theory….
Not to mention very little Biblical references are used to back up the authors assumptions, unlike someone such as Walid Shoebat who examines biblical prophecy very literally.
But what does it matter anyway because anybody who posts here can just as easily be deleted, or ravenously mocked as usually is the case amongst the “pre-tribber” flock (not unlike the raptureready.com folk).
And the comments like “Islam will never be accepted by the decadent West…” HELLO! If anyone will read a little into history they will find that Islam wasnt spread over an area larger than the Roman Empire by giving the “decadent Jews and Christians” very much choice.
And the authors assumption of “a more politically correct peacfull for of Islam” is simply laughable. More musing from “ivory tower American bible scholars” …try to spend any significant amount of time in the 10-40 window like I have over the past few years and you will see the true implications of the ignorance of the West over the true nature and goals and progression of Islam.
I pray that someday soon “bible prophecy scholars” will start to look at prophecy through a Jerusalem-centric position and not an American-centric one…
Christians really should consider the biblical discernment of people who still believe in the rapture theory and they should clearly question the discernment of Christians that call the Rapture (the harpazo) erroneous when it is clearly taught in scripture.
This post is not a book. So why would you expect to find as many references to scriptures as someone who spent years finding verses to misapply scripture? I have thousands of articles and if you put then all against what Shoebat has written in all his writings I will bet that there are more biblical references in my writings than all of his combined. So don’t compare apples and oranges. This website does not support me like Shoebat books support him. One post on one aspect of Christianity is not a lifes work for me. I will put in many references in all my posts if you will send me a million bucks so I can hire the staff that doing this would require. Since your so sure the end is coming this decade that should not be a problem for some of you Muslim Antichrist 2012-2019 tribulation proponents? You can’t take it with you, you know. Yet after many months of this challenge all these “true believers” send nothing.
Besides, you act as if this is the only article I have written on this topic. There are about 20 more articles on this topic on this blog and some of them have links to bible references and other articles from Bible prophecy experts that give plenty of additional Bible references that debunk the Muslim Antichrist concept. Why should I duplicate what I already referenced? Another point is that I heard the number of references argument before from Shoebat and followers used against other Bible teachers. Since when does the number of references one quotes make one correct? If the references are not applied correctly they are worthless. Correct application of scripture is not a numbers game. Churches are not more Biblical because they have large numbers but it seems that Muslim Antichrist proponents think they are correct because they are gaining a following. No. People today just want to believe what they want to believe. Anything that tickles their ears. By the way, that is a paraphrased reference to the Bible. I use many of those home made paraphrases in my posts because I expect most readers that care about these issues to know the Bible and know that I am getting these concepts from the Bible without having to dig up chapter and verse for what they already know.
If you feel your going to be deleted or mocked here then why do you post? If you come here to just criticize without trying to do a little research on the reasons I give in my various posts why the Beast is not Islam or the Antichrist a Muslim, then of course you should expect to take heat.
The Bible teaches that the Antichrist will kill the two prophets and then have control over the whole world. I cannot help that you do not take what God’s says literally and that you make the Antichrist strictly regional. There are so many references to the power of the Antichrist being worldwide that I am not even going to waste my time on the references. Besides, I have already talked about the local Antichrist theory on another post on this Blog. There is a search box from the home page if you really care to do some research on my posts.
If you read my posts you would know that I do not think Islam is going to change until after a great world war takes place and after a Marian deception unites the world religions. Even now there is a large movement by a Muslim religious leader in Turkey to modify Islam. I have that article on this blog as well. So Islam is not as black and white as you indicate. In time people will get tired of war and then fundamentalism will be outlawed.
I look at Bible prophecy through a Bible centered position. Not a Western, Jerusalem or even a Eastern position like Shoebat does. I think you really have not read my work. But from someone who mocks the reality of the Rapture what should I expect?
I now understand why the last poster is not welcomed on RaptureReady.com. His comments will no longer be welcomed here either. People really should read a blogs posting policy before posting. I have very little tolerance for those who go off topic and those who did not read the prior comments of the post and just want to come here to repeat arguments.
Sometimes I have to wonder why the nature of those who hate the Rapture and insist on a Muslim Antichrist also turn out to be belligerent. I guess they are looking for someone to fight and thus they need a contemporary Antichrist rather than the one taught about in Daniel and Revelation.
I’m open to all conclusions…But you should be aware that:
1) Not necessarily a meshiach is a JEW
(Isa 45:1) Thus3541 saith559 the LORD3068 to his anointed,4899 to Cyrus,3566 whose834 right hand3225 I have holden,2388 to subdue7286 nations1471 before6440 him; and I will loose6605 the loins4975 of kings,4428 to open6605 before6440 him the two leaved gates;1817 and the gates8179 shall not3808 be shut;5462
H4899
?????
ma?shi?yach
maw-shee’-akh
From H4886; anointed; usually a consecrated person (as a king, priest, or saint); specifically the Messiah: – anointed, Messiah.
1) The beast from the sea of revelation 13
(Rev 13:2) And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his throne, and great authority.
A beast composed then of Leopard (MACEDONIAN EMPIRE) with feet of BEAR (MEDO PERSIAN EMPIRE) and the MOUTH of LION (BABYLONIAN EMPIRE)
NONE OF THESE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ROME
The Roman Empire superseded these three and the revived Roman Empire (the proposed Euro-Med Union) intends to include these areas. These are the same four Beasts of Daniel except in Daniel’s vision he is seeing forward in time. So here John may be looking back to the future as this Beast emerges initially from Babylon then the Medo Persian and then the Greek and lastly the Roman Empire that takes on the areas, power and features of all three prior kingdoms.
The Roman Empire superseded these three
There is no account of the conquest of PARTHIAN (Persian) EMPIRE by Romans
PERIOD
Me thinks you have the wrong order of kingdoms. Alexander took over the Medo Persian Empire and the Roman Empire came after the Greek.
Yes but Revelation 13 says the beast has foot of bear i.e. has its foundations in the TERRITORY of PERSIAN EMPIRE this cannot be applied to ROME.
maybe a future empire may comprise PERSIA CONQUERED anyway the LEOPARD depicts EXCLUSIVELY ALEXANDRE’S EMPIRE and no other
Excuse me, Revelation chap 13 has no “I.e. has its foundations in the territory of persian empire” Your reading what you want into scripture and your also not getting the whole point so I give up.
Symbols are made to BE READ i can read PERSIAN EMPIRE as a BASE in BEAST’S FOOT of BEAR
otherwise John should have considered other animals….
But he USES THE SAME BEASTS of DANIEL, moreover in one case (THE LEOPARD) uses the SAME WORD used in LXX version of DANIEL ????????.
Now if BEAR=MEDO PERSIA
LEOPARD=MACEDONIAN
LION=BABYLON
and ROME is OUT ’cause is THE ONE IS at the time of JOHN in REV.17
Why all you are stubbornly insisting “It’s ROME, it’s ROME!!” maybe to have a SACRED SEAL to your ANTI-CATHOLIC HATE?
I don’t have hate toward Catholics. Most of my relatives are Catholics and I still am a Catholic in the eyes of that Church. I do not think highly of the Roman Catholic institution because they have added doctrines of men to the gospel but so have many Protestants..
You might read what this tread is all about. It is about why the Beast is not Islam and why Islam will not be the religion of the Antichrist. When I am talking about the Beast and the Antichrist as coming from the Roman Empire I am not talking about the Catholic Church in Rome I am talking about the revival of the Roman Empire (as we do see taking place today in the EU and the planned med affiliation). The Catholic Church in Rome fits more aptly as the Queen Harlot of Revelation chapter 17. She is not the Beast. In fact the Beast hates her and devours her in the end.
In any case if I see any more accusations of hate coming from you, you are going to get banned. Not because I hate you, It will be because you will no longer will be welcomed to make false accusations and sow discord on my posts.
I do not deny the symbols that you mention represent the Empires that you mentioned. Everyone who studies eschatology knows these things. I dispute your subjective interpretation of what the feet of the Bear means and some unknown conjecture by you about how the feet of the Bear eliminates the revived Roman Empire as the end time Beast.
You really need to explain yourself better because I for one am not getting the picture. Even though I may be a little dense, a teacher must be able to make things clear to his students or he fails.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Rev&c=17&t=ASV
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
REVELATION 17
Here the same bible DEBUNKS your debunking….
you will say how? Since from the first verse (AHA!) there are seven “hills” on which the woman sitteth (ROME!)
Read carefully it’s written mountains NOT HILLS
http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/the-beast-%E2%80%9Cis%E2%80%9D-or-%E2%80%93-%E2%80%9Cis-not%E2%80%9D-rome-%E2%80%93-end-times/
Verse 10 describes the succession of 7 kings before the final beast takes power: “five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet to come.” The current empire was Rome.
But then verse 11 re-emphasizes “And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.” [Note that it does not say the beast is of the 6th, the one that “is,” which would be the Roman empire]
To qualify as the beast, it would have to be “was,” and “is not” during the time of John. Since Rome “is” during John’s time, and not “is not,” this also shows that it is not Rome, but an empire that occurred before Rome. Recall that in Revelation 13, the previous ancient Grecian (leopard) empire, with some Roman (iron teeth) and Medo (bear)-persian (lion) elements, that will arise to be the beast, fit the description of the 7th and 8th beasts. This is the hybrid predicted in verse 8.
Paolo,
You are mixing scriptures that talk about two different things. I have told you this before, THE BEAST IS NOT THE WOMAN OF REVELATION chapter 17. The woman of Revelation 17 rides the Beast so how can she be the Beast? Also the ten kings that give power to the Beast hate the woman so the woman is not the Beast.
In the Greek New Testament the word for mountain, mountains and mount is the same (orvo oros) . In English mount is the word chosen by some English translators when it refers to Zion and Olives otherwise they chose the English word Mountain or Mountains. To assume that because the word hills was not chosen for where the Woman sits that it cannot refer to Rome is equivalent to saying that small mount Olives cannot also be seen as a hill.
Rev 17:9 is telling us where the spirit behind all false religious systems since Babylon will be headquartered in the end times (At the Vatican in Rome).
Verse 10 is no longer talking about the location of the woman it talks about the seven world empires where the false religious Harlot fornicated ever since Babylon. So when it is talking about the seven mountains (world empires) five were before the time of John the sixth was Roman and the seventh will be the Revived Roman Empire. When it is talking about the seven kings as in verse 11, it says one of the kings of these seven world empires will also be the eighth king (a evil spirit behind the king unless one actually thinks one of the seven kings physically rises from the dead).
Also I am not at all saying that the Antichrist does not come out of the Greek area of the Roman Empire or that the last Beast is not a hybrid of all the beasts before it. The argument of this post is that the Beast is not Islam and that the Antichrist will not come out of Islam. By the way, I think the Beast actually returns to Babylon for the last 3.5 years but at that point there is no Islam in the world. There is only those who follow the truth as it was given by the two prophets and the 144,000 and the angels and those that believe a lie and think that Satan is God.
Read my Revelation commentary on Babylon and you should get my full picture.
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/The%20book%20of%20Revelation/Revelation%20Chapter%2017.htm
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/The%20book%20of%20Revelation/Revelation%20Chapter%2018.htm
“..Five were before the time of John the sixth was Roman and the seventh will be the Revived Roman Empire” you said..
Yes but….The so-called “Revived Roman Empire” has ALREADY BEEN and…Gone.
“It is said that when Mehmed stepped into the ruins of the Boukoleon, known to the Ottomans and Persians as the Palace of the Caesars, probably built over a thousand years before by Theodosius II, he uttered the famous lines of Persian poetry:
The spider weaves the curtains in the palace of the Caesars;
the owl calls the watches in the towers of Afrasiab.
After the Fall of Constantinople, Mehmed claimed the title of “Caesar” of Rome (Kayser-i Rûm), although this claim was not recognized by the Patriarch of Constantinople, or Christian Europe. Mehmed’s claim rested with the concept that Constantinople was the seat of the Roman Empire,(…)”
SO MEHEMED SECOND was the THE SEVENTH KING having conquered the THRONE of the SIXTH: ROME.
A claim that was not even recognized does not make it an Empire. If the Roman Empire is now replaced by a rising Muslim Beast? how do you explain the rise of the EU and plans for a Euro-Med union on the same boundaries of the old Roman Empire? We cannot ignore reality when we see Bible prophecy being fulfilled before our very eyes.
How also do you explain the Roman Catholic Church with all its Babylonian religious baggage and its retched history? A religion with embassies in many nations and a seat at the UN being a harlot with the world system? It even has a man calling himself the vicar of Christ in the garb of a drag queen. This religious system is the fitting image of the Harlot of Revelation chap 17 and it sits on the seven hills of Rome, not in Babylon or Mecca. By the way, a Harlot is someone that has a husband but whores. Islam never had any claims on Christ and never knew the God of the Bible. I mention the Roman Church because the Harlot rides the Beast into power and today the Pope is supporting the EU and UN NWO agenda. So put the Woman on the Roman Beast and it fits Bible prophecy. Put the Woman on Mecca and your prophetically still in some eastern desert.
Many people in USA tend to EXAGERRATE the power of EU
Emma Bonino (former EU commissary) said : EU is an Economic Giant (But is it anymore?), a political Dwarf, and a MILITARY WORM”
No one of “Apocalypse telepreachers” consider the role of CHINA (remember HSBC is in LONDON but is CHINESE) in ENDTIMES. And CHINA is one of BEST FRIENDS of SYRIAN STRONGMAN BASHAR ASSAD (for someone mr. 666 in person….see http://www.profoundprophecy.com).
In consider the attitude “the bible does not speak about musilims” a rather myopic attitude…
Consider Ezekiel why all the nations cited in EZ. 38 are NOW all ISLAMIC?
The EU has a GDP higher than the United States and that does not include the proposed Med affiliation. There is also enough military power in NATO to annihilate any Muslim confederacy.
By the way, if the Eur-Med union becomes a reality it will include many of the nations around Israel and also Israel. Like I said, the Beast will look like the old Roman Empire. So, many of Arab nations will be incorporated into the Eur-Med union but this probably occurs only after the war of Psalm 83.
God destroys the Muslim nations that come with Gog in Ezekiel but that war occurs before the Antichrist, so how then can the Antichrist be of them? If you need to find out why the Gog war is not Armageddon do some basic research on Bible prophecy. I am not going to explain it to you here.
ASSAD is two ugly to be the Antichrist although he is antichrist. Does any thinking person believe the whole world is going to follow ASSAD or that even the Persians and all Muslims will follow ASSAD?
The bottom line is that all the nations that come against Israel are Muslim today because the people that are in Islam do not know Christ, follow lies, and hate Israel. It is not that the Antichrist will be a Muslim. Islam will be dealt with in the wars of Psalm 83 and the Gog war of Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39 but all this is prior to the Antichrist. What is left of Islam after these wars will likely be watered down and joined with the Harlot of Rome into a one world religion.
Only when the two witnessness of God are slain and the whole world is throwing a party rejoicing and saying peace and safety will the Antichrist be revealed. The world is not going to be rejoicing and following the Antichrist because Islam wins and is imposing Sharia law on everyone.
China’s role in the end times comes with the Kings of the East. China is not involved in the Psalm 83 or Gog war. This is after the Antichrist is revealed.
I see you did not answer what I said about the Harlot. Islam simply does not fit the Harlot.
http://gatesofvienna.blogspot.com/2007/02/martin-luther-on-jihad.html
Friday, February 23, 2007
Martin Luther on the Jihad
by Baron Bodissey
In the early 16th century, nearly a hundred years after the conquest of Constantinople by the Turkish Sultan, the Turks had overrun much of the Balkans and recently subdued Hungary. The Germanic principalities in Central Europe were threatened by the Turkish advance, but their customary fractiousness — and the advent of the Protestant Reformation — had made it that much harder for Christendom to unite and repel the invaders.
In 1528, Martin Luther had no way of knowing that a century and half later the Christian states of Europe would unite long enough to drive the Turks back from the Gates of Vienna. In his day, Europe was up for grabs.
Here are some excerpts from what Luther had to say about Islam, and the necessity for a robust military defense of Christendom, from Vom Kriege wider die Türken (On War Against the Turk):
Martin LutherI have some pieces of Mohammed’s Koran which might be called in German a book of sermons or doctrines of the kind that we call pope’s decretals. When I have time, I must put it into German so that every man may see what a foul and shameful book it is. In the first place, he praises Christ and Mary very much as those who alone were without sin, and yet he believes nothing more of Christ than that he is a holy prophet, like Jeremiah or Jonah, and denies that he is God’s Son and true God. Besides, he does not believe that Christ is the Savior of the world, Who died for our sins, but that He preached to His own time, and completed His work before His death, just like any other prophet.
On the other hand, he praises and exalts himself highly and boasts that he has talked with God and the angels, and that since Christ’s office of prophet is now complete, it has been commanded to him to bring the world to his faith and if the world is not willing, to compel it or punish it with the sword; and there is much glorification of the sword in it. Therefore, the Turks think their Mohammed much higher and greater than Christ, for the office of Christ has ended and Mohammed’s office is still in force.
From this anyone can easily observe that Mohammed is a destroyer of our Lord Christ and His kingdom, and if anyone denies concerning Christ, that He is God’s Son and has died for us, and still lives and reigns at the right hand of God, what has he left of Christ? Father, Son, Holy Ghost, Baptism, the Sacrament, Gospel, Faith and all Christian doctrine and life are gone, and there is left, instead of Christ, nothing more than Mohammed with his doctrine of works and especially of the sword. That is the chief doctrine of the Turkish faith in which all abominations, all errors, all devils are piled up in one heap.
- – - – - – - – - -
[…]
In the second place, the Turk’s Koran, or creed, teaches him to destroy not only the Christian faith, but also the whole temporal government. His Mohammed, as has been said, commands that ruling is to be done by the sword, and in his Koran the sword is the commonest and noblest work.
Thus the Turk is, in truth, nothing but a murderer or highwayman, as his deeds show before men’s eyes. St. Augustine calls other kingdoms, too, great robbery; Psalm 76:4 also calls them “fastnesses of robbers,” because it is but seldom that an empire has come up except by robbery, force, and wrong; or at the very least, it is often seized and possessed by wicked people without any justice, so that the Scriptures, in Genesis 10:9, call the first prince upon earth, Nimrod, a mighty hunter. But never has any kingdom come up and become so mighty by murder and robbery as that of the Turk; and he murders and robs every day, for it is commanded in their law, as a good and divine work, that they shall rob and murder, devour and destroy more and more those that are round about them; and they do this, and think that they are doing God service. Their government, therefore, is not a regular rulership, like others, for the maintenance of peace, the protection of the good, and the punishment of the wicked, but a rod of anger and a punishment of God upon the unbelieving world, as has been said. The work of murdering and robbing pleases the flesh in any case, because it enables men to gain high place and subject everyone’s life and goods to themselves; how much more must the flesh be pleased when this is a commandment, as though God would have it so and it pleased Him well! Therefore among the Turks, too, they are held the best who are diligent to increase the Turkish kingdom and who are constantly murdering and robbing round about them.
[…]
All fanatics, as a rule, when the spirit of lies has taken possession of them and led them away from the true faith, have been unable to stop there, but have followed the lie with murder and taken up the sword, as a sign…
* “The Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, was no more than Allah’s apostle and His Word which He cast to Mary; a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His apostles and do not say: ‘Three.’ …Allah is but one God….” (Koran 4:171)
* “…Then Allah will say: ‘Jesus, the son of Mary, did you ever say to mankind: ‘Worship me and my mother as gods beside Allah?’” (Koran 5:114)
Who is the liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, even he that denieth the Father and the Son.
1 John 2:22
Paolo, I do not deny that Islam is satanic and antichrist and that Muhammad was a false prophet but that does not make Islam the Beast of Revelation or mean the son of perdition (the Antichrist) will come from Islam.
Shortly after Luther, many Christians were saying the Papacy was the Antichrist. Those that do not understand Bible prophecy and certainly those who allegorize Bible prophecy are not going to get Bible prophecy correct. Certain Christians that allegorize prophecy were always looking for their own concept of the antichrist to be present in their own time. They picked what they thought was the most qualified candidate. The same is happening today. Nevertheless, any serious study of Bible prophecy that takes the scriptures about end times literally leads to the conclusion that Islam is not the Beast.
In all your comments you have not at all proven your case that Islam is the Beast and I now think you have said more than enough on this blog post.
“Mr. President: I heard a lot about your newspaper. I have not met any Italian journalist, but I have met with a lot of politicians and parliament members, especially after the 11th of September which ignited European movement especially in the Middle East. Of course the problem lies in the lack of communication, not communication in the technological meaning, but in the human meaning. That is what we need; we need to have more dialogue, more communication. I do not think we are going to start this communication now between the Syrians and the Italians because we have a history of two thousand years, a common history. You know that Syria gave the Roman Empire eight Popes and five emperors. When the Pope came to Damascus last May, I told him we were watching your pilgrimage.”
Bashar Assad. Interview to corriere della sera 14-02-02
“The traditions of the Syrian Christians and Moslems’ living peacefully together is one of the most important characteristic of our people; we have also a Jewish Community. In Syria live many of the Russians. The most ancient Church exists in Damascus.”
From His Excellency Interview with the Russian Gazeta Daily (August 20-21, 2008)
I don’t say islam is the beast i say that THE BEAST will come out from the EAST but could well be
that a SYRIAN ARAB will became the NEW ROMAN EMPEROR and SHANISHA of PERSIA and KHAKHAN of the NEO-DURRANI EMPIRE (Afghanistan+Pakistan) governing all that from BABYLON and CONSTANTINOPLE…..
A Syrian might come to power in some future Eur-Med union but if he does he will not be Assad (too divisive and too ugly).
what other religion has lead 1.5 billion people away from Christ. and by what prophet. its islam and thier false prophet mohammed. the beast that once was is not and will come again…. the pet name for the koran is the book of 666… pretty simple
They never were of Christ. On the other hand, Catholicism and liberal Protestantism has led almost 4 billion people that call themselves Christians away from the true gospel of Christ over the last 1500 years. Any pet name of the Qu’ran being 666 is only in the eyes of the beholder. Who is playing the Harlot with the Kings of the world? That is pretty simple.
Don – there is but one religion that has waged unending “holy war” against those “who hold to the testimony of Jesus Christ” (Rev 12:17). That religion is Islam. The Middle East use to be predominantly Christian. The reason it is no longer Christian is because it is now Islamic.
The “harlot” with the kings of the world is Saudi Arabia, the birthplace of Islam. The harlotry is the alignment with the kings of the earth from a commercial perspective w her oil. Read Rev 17 and notice how many times commerce and wealth is mentioned. The “wine” in the cup of the harlot is her oil. Muslims consider Saudi Arabia as a harlot becasue of her alignment with the West, both commercially and miltarily.
Jack
If Islam is the Harlot then how do you explain these Bible verses. Islam was not around in the time of the prophets and apostles and all the blood of the prophets and saints are not found in Islam. The Harlot is all world religion that fornicates with another god besides YHWH.
The Harlot is all false religion since Babylon not just Islam.
Read chapter 17 and 18 of my Revelation commentary for a more complete explanation
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/The%20book%20of%20Revelation/Revelation%20Chapter%2017.htm.
I might add that the Middle East was not predominately Christian or they would have never followed a false prophet.
I might add that the Middle East was not predominately Christian or they would have never followed a false prophet.
http://3lotus.com/en/Islam/rise-of-islam-in-egypt.htm
http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=28359
Traditional Islamic law mandates the death penalty for Muslims who leave Islam, in accordance with Muhammad’s command: “Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.” This is still the position of all the schools of Islamic jurisprudence, although there is some disagreement over whether the law applies only to men, or to women also.
Many Muslims take this dictum quite seriously even today. In August 2007, Mohammed Hegazy, an Egyptian convert from Islam to Christianity, was forced to go into hiding after Islamic clerics issued sentences of death against him. He refused to flee Egypt, however, and declared: “I know there are fatwas to shed my blood, but I will not give up and I will not leave the country.”
An Afghani named Abdul Rahman was arrested in February 2006 – for the crime of leaving Islam and becoming a Christian. The constitution of the new, post-Taliban Afghani regime stipulates that “no law can be contrary to the beliefs and provisions of the sacred religion of Islam.” Abdul Rahman’s case showed that the traditional Islamic classification of apostasy as a capital crime would be included in this. After an international firestorm, and pressure from the United States, Abdul Rahman was released and asked for asylum in Italy, which was swiftly granted; however, the conditions under which he was originally arrested still remain: the Islamic law provision in the Afghani constitution remains today.
Mohammed Hegazy and Abdul Rahman aren’t alone. Christian converts face persecution all over the Islamic world – and it usually goes unreported. Another case that did come to the notice of the international press was that of Robert Hussein Qambar Ali, a Kuwaiti who converted from Islam to Christianity in the 1990s. He was arrested and tried for apostasy, even though the Kuwaiti Constitution guarantees the freedom of religion and says nothing about the traditional Islamic prohibition on conversion to another faith. One of Hussein’s prosecutors, explained that Islamic law superseded the Kuwaiti Constitution anyway, and so Hussein could be legitimately tried: “With grief I have to say that our criminal law does not include a penalty for apostasy. The fact is that the legislature, in our humble opinion, cannot enforce a penalty for apostasy any more or less than what our Allah and his messenger have decreed. The ones who will make the decision about his apostasy are: our Book, the Sunna, the agreement of the prophets and their legislation given by Allah.” Even in places where it is not fully enforced, the Sharia retains the status of a kind of meta-law, often overriding and superseding the laws of the land.
That fact also bodes ill for Christians. Besides denying the freedom of conscience, Islamic law mandates that Christians be subjected to a second-class status that mandates that they pay a special tax (jizya; cf. Qur’an 9:29) from which Muslims are exempt, not hold authority over Muslims, not build new churches or repair old ones, and submit to various other humiliating and discriminatory regulations. However, these laws have not been in force in Iraq since it was an Ottoman province – and under Western pressure, the Ottoman Empire abolished this discriminatory system, the dhimma, in the 1850s. In Saddam Hussein’s Iraq, as well as the Syria of the Assads and in other countries where relatively secular governments have been in power in recent decades, lawmakers took their cue in many areas more from Western law than Islamic law, and Christians enjoyed relative equality with Muslims.
But those days seem to be drawing to a close. Preaching in a mosque in Al-Damam, Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Muhammad Saleh Al-Munajjid, a popular preacher whose sermons circulate widely over the internet, declared that “educating the children to Jihad and to hatred of the Jews, the Christians, and the infidels” is “what is needed now.”
Many Muslims are heeding such words. In March 2007, Islamic gangs knocked on doors in Christian neighborhoods in Baghdad, demanding payment of the jizya. Christians all over Iraq live increasingly in an atmosphere of terror. In October 2006, a Syrian Orthodox priest, Fr. Boulos Iskander, went shopping for auto parts in the Iraqi city of Mosul. He was never seen alive again. A Muslim group kidnapped him and initially demanded $350,000 in ransom; they eventually lowered this to $40,000, but added a new demand: Fr. Boulos’ parish had to denounce the notorious remarks made the previous month by the Pope in an address in Regensburg, Germany, that caused rioting all over the Islamic world. The ransom was paid, and the church dutifully posted 30 large signs all over Mosul, but to no avail: Fr. Boulos was not only murdered but…
Don – The beast of Rev 17 is an end time beast, and he represents an end time false religion. He has heads and horns, both of which are future. This beast is the third beast in Revelation, all of which are satan’s embodiments (Rev 12:17). The frist two are in Rev 13. The scarlot beast is the personaificaiton of the false religion first prophesied in Rev 13:1-8 (the world “worships” this beast). He is Allah, the god of Islam. The harlot rides the end time scarlet beast of Rev 17, demonstrating that in the end time, we should look for division within this false religion. There will be one from among the religions who is considered a harlot, even by her own. This is the case for the royal family of Saudi Araiba, the birthplace of Islam. If the harlot is all false religion since time of Christ then the harlot is unable to be personified.
You need to read your history regarding the Middle East, Christianity, and Islam. The entire Middle East was Christian until the 7th century AD when Islam arrived on the scene. Islam destroyed the church. This jihad reached its peak when the Eastern Roman Church was destroyed in 1453. The city of Constantinople is now called Istanbul. Many, many, believers were martyed for their faith. For historical reference read, Roger Crowley, 1453, The Holy War and Constantinople. See also, “The Decline of Eastern Christianity Under Islam : From Jihad to Dhimmitude : Seventh-Twentieth Century,” by Bat Ye’or, Miriam Kochan, and David Littman.
Of course, for an entirely different paradigm, see my book website presently under construction, http://www.whenthepiecesfit.org
Jack
Paolo, I know that Islam kills Christians that is not the issue of this post. The debate is about the Son of Perdition – the Antichrist being a Muslim.
Jack, I guess you did not read chapter 17 and 18 of my Revelation Commentary like I asked you.
Sure the Middle East and the whole Roman Empire identified with Christianity but that did not make them true Christians. Had they been true Christians they would never have followed a false prophet.
The Harlot is easily identified through history because she kills God’s people. Yes today Islam can be identified as being the harlot but tomorrow Islam will be supersede by a one world religion. In my Revelation commentary I give a brief history of the Harlot when I compare the woman of the flesh with the woman of the promise. The history through time of the Harlot woman of the flesh is in bold
The tale of two nations or two women. The struggle between the woman from the flesh (harlot woman) and the woman from the promise (those who believe and trust God) can be followed in the following timeline (This is only a sample to help you understand and it is not meant to be all conclusive):
· The Babylonian rebellion against God by Nimrod – the mystery religion and the Babylonian priesthood is founded at Babylon.
· Abraham is taken out to be the father of all who live by faith in the true Creator. He believes God’s promise.
· Ishmael is born of the flesh from Abraham’s slave girl – Ishmael mingles with the pagans of Babylon.
· Isaac is born of the promise and follows the God of his father (Abraham).
· Esau is the first son of Isaac but Esau puts no value on the promise of his birthright and sells it to Jacob for a meal.
· Jacob becomes Israel and becomes a nation that is to keep the oracles and promise of God for the benefit of all the people of the promise.
· Israel’s son Joseph speaks of the vision God gave him for the people of promise.
· Joseph is sold into slavery to Egypt by jealous half brothers.
· Joseph becomes prime minister of Egypt with the help of God and saves the descendents of Israel from physical starvation.
· The Egyptian world government forgets Joseph, becomes totally corrupted by Babylonian pagan practices, and enslaves and persecutes the descendents of Israel.
· God raises up Moses to deliver Israel from Egypt and the Law is given to Israel to lead them to the promised Savior.
· Judaism becomes corrupted by harlotry with pagan gods.
· The world empire of Babylon enslaves Israel.
· The Mystical Brotherhood of the Babylonian order moves its headship to Pergamos after the fall of Babylon.
· Some of the Jews return to Israel and rebuild God’s temple.
· The Babylonian priesthood is moved to Rome by the last will of Attalus king of Pergamos.
· Julius Caesar becomes supreme Pontiff (high priest) of the Babylonian Order in BC 63.
· John the Baptist is born to restore Israel so they are ready to receive their promise.
· Jesus “is the promise” and comes to save all mankind.
· The Babylonian influenced Jewish priesthood and the Roman world system kill Jesus. The priests rejected the promise for adultery with Rome.
· Jesus rises from the dead and the promise is given to all who by faith trust in this risen Savior.
· There is a secession of Pontiffs from Julius Caesar to the year when the Babylonian Order becomes the ruler of the Roman Church in 378 AD (a very long story).
· The wheat grows in the same field (the institutional church) as the harlot tares and grows up with them.
· Islam is born and it teaches the sons of Ishmael and Esau to worship a single pagan God that persecutes those born of the promise.
· The tares in the institutional church choke to death many of the people of the promise in the inquisitions.
· The Protestant reformation is born by those who teach that salvation comes from trusting in the promise of Jesus alone.
· Most of Protestantism plays the harlot with philosophy, psychology, new age paganism, humanism, pragmatism and materialism.
· The people of the promise are now the wheat among the tares in the Catholic and Protestant Churches.
· The printed Bible becomes available to the public. Smaller fields grow so much wheat the tares find little room to root.
· Higher critical thinking philosophies war against those who believe the promise in God’s word.
· The people of the promise are removed in the rapture and all the wheat not entangled with the tares (harlot) is removed from the earth.
· All religions of the world unite after a great world religious war to form a world religion led by the Vatican at Rome. This woman will ride the Beast into her end time role.
· The Beast devours the woman that rode on his back (world religious institutions and leaders). The tares are burned.
· Satan through the lying wonders of His Beast and False Prophet sets himself up as God, declares the Kingdom of God has come, and he moves the political and religious capitol of the world to Babylon where he builds a city of gold for himself.
· The wheat bound with paganism is threshed during the great tribulation the Beast brings on the earth.
· All people of the promise that were in adultery return to her husband – the true God of heaven – and are gathered into His barn.
· God avenges all the people of promise by destroying the Beast and by setting up the real kingdom of God on the earth ruled by Jesus.
The woman who rides the Beast has actually existed since the days of Babylon but she will play her major role in the last days. She in the end will be eaten by the Beast she rides because he will claim to be God and will not tolerate the worship of anyone or anything other that himself. Many who were in harlotry will come to understand the truth in those days through the teaching and the judgments that take place in this time of trial for the whole world. These who come out of Babylon will not worship the Beast and these along with a remnant in Israel will return to the true God of heaven but it will cost many of them their mortal lives. In those days all who seek to save their lives by worshiping the Beast will lose their soul and those who lose their life for Jesus’ sake will gain eternal life.
Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
For a more detailed study on the history and future of the woman who rides the Beast I highly recommend the book “A Woman Rides the Beast” by Dave Hunt, Harvest House, 1994.
But I don’t discuss this: There has already been SYRIAN ARAB Roman Emperors or POPES of Church
Why do you CATHEGORICALLY EXCLUDE THIS POSSIBILITY?
The question is the NATIONALITY not the RELIGION
Paolo, What makes you think that I categorically think that the Antichrist cannot be Syrian or Assyrian? You must be mixing me up with someone else since I also lean toward the Antichrist being an Assyrian or Greek Christian ruling over a future Eur-Med Union.
My argument on this post and other posts on this blog about this issue is that the Beast is not Islam and the Antichrist will not worship Allah. The Antichrist will worship himself and the god of forces.
I am a follower of Moses, Jesus and Muhhamad. Peace be upon them all. The day will come when we will all be told the truth. What is consistent amongst all the holy books is God has told mankind again and again and again and AGAIN!! – Do not commit idolotry, do not have any gods besides ONE GOD. (Even after mans attempt to currupt the original scriptures this truth is evident) This is the simple truth that every prophet has delivered, yet men from all dinominations continue to blaspheme and to make GOD The Almighty; A man, 3 in one, a father, having a mother, having partner etc etc. Worst of all associating pictures and yes even idols in the their very places of worship. WAKE UP to all of those Jews, Chritians and Muslims who do this. Also consistent is that the Anti Christ in all traditions will ask to be worshipped as a man. So lets get something straight. The majority of modern day “Christains” already worship a man and the modern day Jews are still awaiting the messiah. The muslims WILL NEVER WORSHIP A MAN / EARTHLY BEING! So how in can it follow that the anti christ will come amongst the muslims. by a simple process of logic it would leave the jews who first tried to deny Jesus his rightful place as the messiah to take the anti christ as their saviour, The christians who today already worship a man will be split. Ultimately I care less about all this debate about the anti christ and more about who is God and thE nature of OUR CREATER. I for one bear witness that their is no god besides GOD and He has no partners and thier is nothing like unto him!! To all those who label themselves Jews, muslims and Christians that also believe this to be true. PEACE BE UNTO YOU.
Tommy,
God told mankind not to do many sinful activities but He also knew that mankind would sin and that is why God sent His own Son as a Savior to free man from the sins that would eternally separation man from a Holy God.
God told us long ago that He would do this through the prophets but when the Creator came into the world the world did not know Him and leaders of Israel rejected Him.
Make no mistake the Jews killed Jesus because He claimed to be equal with God, yet their own prophets foretold that God would come as a man.
Christians do not blaspheme God by calling Jesus God and the Holy Spirit God. They are one God in perfect unity. Just because you do not understand how that can be does not mean it is not true. Jesus taught this truth Himself. So don’t call Jesus a prophet if you do not believe Him.
The Truth is that Jesus is the only visible image of an invisible God.
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Man was made in God’s image so is it so hard for you to understand that the Creator would also choose to look like a man? God’s plan from before the fall of man was to come in the likeness of a man to take away man’s sin through His own blood sacrifice that would forever pay for the sins of the image bearers that He created?
Abraham displayed this foreshadow and truth when he was about to sacrificing His Son for sin. This is not in the scriptures to make a good story, Abraham was prophetically acting out what would happen in the future through God’s Son Jesus Christ. It happened at the very same spot where Jesus was crucified.
I agree that there is no God besides God but He is displayed to His creation in His Son. Those that deny the Son deny the Father that sent Him.
The whole point is that man cannot come to Almighty God through mankind’s flawed works. Man must be reconciled to God through the Father’s own righteous works carried out in His Son. That is why Jesus said:
“I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” Joh 14:6.
Jesus also said “He that has seen me has seen the Father.” John 14:9
He was not talking about the body of flesh that would die, He was talking about the divine nature He had from the beginning with the Father. That is why the grave could not hold Him. He rose to a new creation and is now sitting at the right hand of God calling all people to eternal salvation through His own work. But at the appointed time He will return to earth to put down all spiritual forces and people that oppose Him on earth.
Don, thank you for your efforts in replying and quick response. I think we agree that Jesus was sent unto mankind by God and that there can only be one God. We also believe in a day of judgement when everyone will be bought to task on what they said and did. I pray to this ONE CREATER as I hope you do with sincerity to guide us towards the right path. Whatever happens on the day of judgement we will be told of our differences. You have your way of life and I have mine.
One final note of caution which I believe would be wise to observe; Be careful who and what you insult. Please don’t misunderstand this to be some sort of silly personal threat which it most certainly isn’t. Surely all words all deeds are recorded and will be judged by God so regardless of personal beliefs I think it’s wise not to talk or act in such ways that might one day come to regret.
There is only one truth and one Creator and one faith and one Lord. I will answer to Him. Jesus showed us the Creator and the Bible was inspired by Him and written about Him. So I have no fear of insulting the Creator when I am just telling people what He did and said.
i just felt like saying thank you. i actually just read about every post. i am not sure where i stand on the ac being from islam. it was great to be a fly on the wall reading all of this. i would like to comment more and maybe in time i will but i really just wanted to say thank you. may Jesus get his Glory from this blog!