The Book of Enoch and Bible prophecy
The Book of Enoch comes up now and then in Bible prophecy. So you might want to be aware of the arguments presented in and about this book. You have to be very careful here because some people will use the Book of Enoch for actually proving that Aliens exist. Alien Resistance and other Christian websites like them say that these beings will be nothing more than fallen Angels setting us up for great deception.
The theory by those who run the Alien Resistance website is that there will be a great deception in the last days carried out by fallen Angels who will pass themselves off to the world as Aliens from another world or dimension. They say these fallen Angels also produced the Nephilim that we are told about in Genesis in pre-flood days. Alien Resistance also takes the position that the early Catholic Church had a hand in trying to covering up what happened before the flood by making sure the Book of Enoch never saw the light of day.
Ill let you decide what is true. I do not know if there actually was a conspiracy to cover up what was written, or if the Book of Enoch just did not meet the standards or say what anyone wanted to hear. Even today, if you talk about Angels producing offspring with women the majority of Christians will look at you like you have too heads because they see conflict in one misunderstood verse (Mt 22:30). Never mind that a literal reading of Genesis makes what happen quite clear. The popular Sons of Seth Theory that almost everyone in Christianity teaches is really myth.
One thing for certain is that you will not hear about these things in mainstream Christianity. So if there is truth here Satan did a pretty good job of covering it up leaving almost everyone on earth wide open for a staged Alien great deception.
I believe the fallen Angels did create the Nephilim on the earth. Even Josephus and other ancient writings tell about that. But I do not know how much truth is in the manuscripts of the Book of Enoch about pre-flood events.
The Book of Enoch It’s history, fallen angels, UFO connections
Since it’s English translation in the 1800’s from texts found in Ethiopia in 1768, The Book of Enoch (known today as 1st Enoch) has made quite a stir in academic circles. 1 Enoch has been authenticated as existing and in wide use before the church age (most scholars now date it at 200 BC). Multiple copies were discovered in 1948 in the Dead Sea Scrolls. This of course has caused many to wonder why it is not included in modern Bibles…
Particular to this site, parts of The Book of Enoch tell the story of wicked angels who abducted and mated with human women, resulting in the hybrid race known throughout secular and Biblical history as the Nephilim (giants, KJV).
While this account encompasses only the first four verses of Genesis 6 (but see also Genesis 3:15, 2 Peter 2:4-6, Jude 6-7), Enoch 1 relates this story in great detail. It lists the names of 18 “prefect” angels – of 200 – who committed this sin. According to the text, these angels also taught mankind the “making of swords and knives, shields and breastplates (metallurgy); … magical medicine, dividing of roots (medicinal and hallucinogenic use); incantations, astrology, the seeing of the stars, the course of the moon, as well as the deception of man.”
By Noah’s time, “The earth also was corrupt (wasting – KJV notation) before God, and the earth was filled with violence… all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.” Gen 6:10-11. Afraid of the consequences, these angels appeal to Enoch to intercede with God on their behalf; God instead uses Enoch to deliver a message of judgment against them. Aside from the “taking of wives,” God states that he would not forgive them for teaching mankind magical arts and warlike ways. As summarized by Pastor Chris Ward:
“According to the Book of Enoch (Not a Canonical Text), God judged the angels for producing the Nephilim. God decreed that the fallen angels (Watchers) were to be cast into Tartarus. The Nephilim were also judged and it was determined that their bodies were to return to the earth in peace but their souls were doomed to wander the earth forever (as) wandering spirits…” (Visit Pastor Chris’s Enoch page which reprints this dialogue between God and Enoch, and The Origin of Demons for more.)
The increasing acceptance and popularization of this important book among theologians helps cast light on the extra-terrestrial hypothesis (ETH) in general. Enoch is an ancient writing which states that angels (not true space aliens, as stated by many UFO cults, and popular modern authors Erich Von Daniken and Zechariah Sitchin) visited ancient Earth and polluted mankind’s DNA. While this case can easily be made solely from the canonized Bible (see Relevant Bible Verses), Enoch is yet another witness against these bad interpretations of Earth’s predelulvian era (i.e., before the flood of Genesis 6). The fact that they also gave mankind technology which supposedly “advanced our race” (but which we actually used to destroy each other, and to incur God’s judgment), lends itself to a more sinister understanding of today’s UFO phenomenon…
The idea that Jesus said that angels cannot have sex is a very common objection to The Book of Enoch and the angelic understanding of Genesis 6 in general. However it is also a very common misinterpretation of what he actually said. Go Here to read what he said (Matt 22:30), and to study this topic. Beyond that misunderstanding, there is no doubt today that The Book of Enoch was one of the most widely accepted and revered books of Jewish culture and doctrine in the century leading up to Jesus’ birth.
It is usually noted first that New Testament author Jude directly quotes from 1 Enoch – “Behold he comes with ten thousands of his saints to execute judgment …” (1 Enoch 2, Jude 14-15). Additionally, “the citations of Enoch by the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs… show that at the close of the second century B.C., and during the first century B.C., this book was regarded in certain circles as inspired” (1).
With all of the evidence in, we have to own the fact that 1 Enoch was not merely “rejected for canonization.” It was buried. Flat out suppressed. It was quite intentionally lost to history, with all copies destroyed or left to rot 10 stories deep under the Vatican. Enoch was not merely “left out of the Bible.” It was dropped like a bad habit.
Okay, only for those who have come the distance, now let’s talk dirt…
Point blank, Origen was right. Enoch was suppressed and labeled as heresy specifically to hide the truth of the fallen angels’ past, present and future activity on earth.
Forget Roswell. Forget the X-Files. The most successful, enduring and damaging cover-up of “The Truth” about our planet’s frequent visitors – has come from within The Church.
Date posted: Saturday, February 7th, 2009 9:17 pm | Under category: Great deception
RSS 2.0 | Comment | Trackback
Hi Don,
The whole subject of the Nephilim is very facinating. I , like you believe there was an invasion from the angelic realm into the material as denoted in Genesis 6. The terms B’nai Elohim (sons of God) as used in Genesis is the same term used in other parts of the OT (Book of Job to be one) to denote angels. And you are correct that the writings of the Book of Enoch and Josephus follow the same thought that angelic beings interjected themselves in the affairs of men in a some sort of reproductive manner.
We may not understand all of this matter considering the giants or men of renown, but just because we don’t understand it does not mean it did not happen.One must consider the report of the 12 spies considering the giants, Og, the King of Bashan (Duet 3:11), and Goliath of Gath and acknowledge that there were these gigantic beings.
One can read the OT writings about these giants and can see they were robust, mighty men of war; like Goliath wearing heavy armor and wielding a huge sword. Their dimensions go from 9 feet to 13 feet tall depending on one’s interpetation of a cubic. Compare this to the known world’s tallest man Robert Wadlow , who was 8′ 11″ due to a pituitary condition, could barely hold himself on his own legs and died at 22 years old in 1940. One must give creedence to the fact that something beyond the norm must be going on in the OT if they believe the infallibility of God’s word.
Maybe there will be a delusion that these beings will appear to be aliens who are trying to help us to the next step of “evolution”. Maybe this could be part of the strong delusion (2 Thes 2:11). Who knows?
The point is that we should carefully consider this and search the scriptures carefully. Though we may not understand it fully, that does not mean this fallen angelic invasion did not happen. Personally, it makes the Great Deluge of Noah’s day make much more sense.
There’s some information on the canonicity of the book of Enoch in its wikipedia article. The Ethopian church accepts it as divinely inspired. Personally, I tend to think that there’s good reason to say it should have been included in the Bible. Some NT scripture actually appears to be referring to the book of Enoch, and it was a book that the Jews in Jesus’ days were familiar with. Some say that the title “Son of Man” was inspired by the book of Enoch. Also, Jude makes reference to a group of angels that are bound with chains until the Final Judgement. These angels must be the group of fallen angels that Genesis 6 and the book of Enoch speak about – the ones who followed their lust and defiled themselves with the daughters of men, thereby creating the heroes of old, men of renown.
I don’t believe there was a conspiracy to deliberately exclude the book of Enoch. Some Church Fathers did accept it as canonical. I don’t see any harm in reading the book of Enoch but I remain cautious just to be on the safe side. I think we should be careful with basing doctrine upon this book. The sixty-six books of the current [protestant] Bible contain all the essential. I suppose the book of Enoch didn’t make it precisely for that reason. Not because it’s necessarily wrong but rather because it’s not essential.
Kevneto, you say the Great Deluge scenario makes more sense. But why is it that right before the Bible tells us about God’s punishment for mankind, we actually learn all about these fallen angels, their wicked offspring and the evil race of men in those days. Why is it that only Noah and his family got saved? Part of the reason why God decided to let Noah live and that He wanted to wipe mankind from the face of the earth, I believe, is that mankind had been so affected by these fallen angels that it may not even have been fully human anymore.
I think the Flood and the account of the fallen angels in Genesis 6 (plus the book of Enoch) are strongly linked to one another. If the last of days will be like the days before God destroyed the world by the Flood, then I think that we will see a similar kind of deception by fallen angels, probably disguised as some alien race. In any case, I don’t think they will be identifying themselves as gods as they may have done to the ancients. Mankind is growing more hostile to the notion of the existence of God or several gods but a race of an advanced civilization of alien saviors would make sense to them.
Nice to see some good comments on this Book of Enoch subject.
I read the Book of Enoch that is in English a while back. It started out real good and if stayed that way throughout the book I would be much more inclined to believe it was inspired. But as you get into it the book the writings get bazaar to say the least.
I am no expert on this but maybe someone else is. Is it possible that the manuscripts we have today are not the same book of Enoch as the one that was in common usage in Jesus time? I guess what I am wondering since the book started out so good but then seemed to drift into mindless babbling, is it possible that the Book of Enoch might have been based on the real book of Enoch but later most of it got corrupted?
It seems to me that I read that Enoch was rejected because the copies the church had at the time of the Canon were already totally corrupted. I also know the book has manuscripts in different languages but I also heard that the content in each manuscript is quite different.
Actually I think Kevneto and you are on the exact same page on this. He implies that the Great Deluge makes more sense because it occurred because all except Noah and his children already had been genetically corrupted. I believe he is saying that is why God sent the flood and the Enoch account of genetic corruption makes the flood and the killing of all flesh make more sense. I agree with you both on this.
If one realizes that the deception in the last days will be so great that all will be deceived even the elect if that were possible. The Delusion or deception is much more than a Muslim Antichrist. It can be no less then fallen angels coming with a message of deception that the whole world will want to believe because they rejected the love of the truth.
Just say tomorrow space ships landed on earth and supernatural beings came out and told the world that man was placed on earth by them to evolute to become like them. They then tell us they left their God leader on earth to help guide us and he has reincarnated himself through many historical religious and political figures through time and is now the present head of the world. Then they say man is now ready for his final evolutionary step and he will have a genetic leap forwarded to become like them if we becomes part of the planetary brotherhood by taking the Mark of their leader How many people in the world would reject their message? After all, most of them fell for the nonsense of Obama and he is not even in the same league. I am not saying it is going to happen that way. It will probably be something even more deceptive.
Nasrani,
I would agree with your points and could speculate that this intrusion from the angelic realm could have poluted the human line so much that God had to destroy all living things (except Noah and his family) before everything was infected through this genetic manipulation. Again, I am just speculating but there is something going on here besides the old Sons of Seth-Daughters of Cain scenario.
As far as current times, I do not believe in aliens from other worlds. I think people are seeing fallen angels masquerading as these space beings. Maybe these beings will pull off some “cosmic” grand deception. They might protray God as a bad alien who is going to invade the earth and how mankind must stop him. On the other hand, I don’t discount that fallen men in their arrogance might actually acknowldege who God is, but refuse to submit to His authority. They might just delude themselves into thinking they could actually prevent the return of Jesus or defeat the Mighty God. Utter folly!
GBU
Okay, thanks for clarifying that Kevneto. From what you wrote I took it that you considered these two events to be more or less separate. But obviously you agree that they’re interconnected.
I never quite understood how people can come up with these fancy theories about these fallen angels actually being mere men. That never made any sense to me. I think they insist they are not fallen angels because the implications of accepting that there was indeed an angelic rebellion by a number that mingled with mankind and produced giants, are too far-reaching. It would mean that much of what we have been taught about history is false.
I’m very inclined to believe that many ancient pagan gods, demi-gods and ancient astronomical myths, are related to these fallen angels. Many civilizations speak of an “alien” (not necessarily in the sci-fi sense of the word) race that taught them astronomy, gave them the calendar and introduced agriculture. I have a theory that the demi-gods may have been half-man and half-demon.
In the case of the Egyptians, we have the three pyramids of Gizah and a couple of other 4th Dynasty pyramids aligned with the constellation of Orion which was known as a giant (demi-god?) hunter to the Greeks and as Osiris (said to be the first true Egyptian pharaoh). The so-called “air” shaft in the Great Pyramid’s King Chamber points at the Belt of Orion and the shaft in the Queen’s Chamber points at the star Sirius which was known as Isis, Osris’ sister and companion, to the Ancient Egyptians.
In Meso-America we find that the ancient Olmecs, like their successors (Mayas, Aztecs, etc.), believed in a foreign race that brought them civilization and science. The god known as Quetzalcoatl to the Aztecs, Kukalkan to the Mayas, and Viracocha to the Incas, is often represented as a feathered serpent. He and his companions were depicted as bearded Caucasian men. The Incas in the Andes had similar myths and that explains why at first they thought the white and bearded Spanish conquistadors were the gods who had returned as their myths had prophesized.
There is virtually not a single people that does not have a Flood myth. Some will claim that the Biblical and Vedic accounts were taken from Gilgamesh, but then how will these people explain the Japanese myths about underwater kingdoms (large and possibly man-made structures have been found off the Okinawan shores), or the various East Asian, African, Pacific and Native American accounts?
But I digress… Those who deny that there was an angelic invasion should not forget that the Bible speaks of giants after the Flood that were living in Canaan and we even have the names of these peoples and a few desciptions about such individuals. Why did God order the Israelites to wipe out the inhabitants? Would He still have ordered them to be destroyed if they had not defiled themselves with demonic practices? I think not.
There is also the Kebra Negast in Ethopia which is mainly about the Queen of Sheba, and chapter 100 is devoted to the angelic invasion, the giants and the Flood. Here’s a quote:
“And straightway God was wroth with them, and He bound them in the terror of Sheol until the day of redemption, as the Apostle saith, “He treated His angels with severity. He spared them not, but made them to dwell in a state of judgement, and they were fettered until the Great Day.” (see II Peter 2:4) The word of God conquered, Who had fashioned Adam in His likeness (or, form), and those who had reviled and made a laughingstock of Adam were conquered. And the daughters of Cain with whom the angels had companied conceived, but they were unable to bring forth their children, and they died. And of the children who were in their wombs some died, and some came forth; having split open the bellies of their mothers they came forth by their navels. And when they were grown up and reached man’s estate they became giants, whose height reached unto the clouds; and for their sakes and the sakes of sinners the wrath of God became quiet, and He said, “My spirit shall only rest on them for one hundred and twenty years, and I will destroy them with the waters of the Flood,” them and all sinners who have not believed the word of God.”
Don, I think you’re right that they didn’t include the book of Enoch due to problems with the manuscripts. The original version must have been written in Hebrew of Aramaic but there are no known complete versions of the book in either of these languages. The most complete version is written in Ge’ez, a semitic language spoken in Ethopia. I did a little research and it seems that the first part of the book, the Book of the Watchers, is believed to be the oldest, and probably also the most authentic part of the book.
I suppose that all in all the book of Enoch makes a good additional read but we ought to be careful that we don’t elevate its status undeservedly to that of the books contained in the present Bible.
God bless.
If you’re interested, you can read the entire Kebra Negast chapter at this address: http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/kn/kn100.htm.
Thanks for all your knowledge. It helps confirm my understanding of these things.
Thanks, Don. But even after all this time, I think I’ve only just scratched the surface of it. Whatever evil manifestations will occur during the tribulation, I’m sure it’s not going to be anything like the science fiction movies lead us to picture it. If anything it’s going to be much worse. Just think of the recent U.S. presidential campaigning and Obama’s election and how it moved the world. And he’s only human. There are cults and new religions enitrely devoted to or inspired by UFOs, the paranormal and in some cases, ancient pagan messianic myths. Some put their faith in evil “aliens” and are willing to abandon their families should they get the chance to be taken by these so-called aliens. And yet they loathe the merciful God of Abraham and those who rightfully put their faith and trust in Him.
I think it would be a good thing to add that the group of angels who fornicated with women (the Watchers) are a group that is separate from Satan and his fallen angels. Most people just lump all fallen angels together. That’s incorrect. While they are all in a sense “fallen”, it is the Watchers who engaged in this rebellion and they are bound as we speak and will not be released until the Final Judgement. They have no free reign. This is not based on the Book of Enoch alone but also on Scripture (see Jude; I Peter 3). The Watchers nevertheless are “fallen” angels but they are not the fallen ones of Satan, who still have free reign on this planet.
It seems there’s also a distinction to be made between evil spirits (demons) and fallen angels. Now this is quite tricky since we tend to call anything that is evil or involves fallen angels simply “demonic”. But when discussing issues like these, I think it would be wiser to clarify things. The bodies of the giants are said to have returned to the earth but not their spirits. These are supposedly the evil spirits that the Bible speaks of that can possess human beings. They are the offspring of fallen angels but strictly speaking they are not true fallen “angels” because they are hybrids who have both human and angelic characteristics.
I consider the terms “gibborim” (man of renown, giants) and “nephilim” to both refer to the giant hybrid offspring of the Watchers (who are fallen angels). Now some say that these Nephilim (giant) spirits cannot be behind the UFOs and other alien appearances because these spirits are to remain invisible (as per book of Enoch). The argument is that they are not fully equal to their angelic progenitors and that they cannot change their appearance (unless perhaps they are alive within their original bodies) since they are only hybrids. They need bodies to possess.
Angels do not need to take possession of bodies because they can change their appearance and make themselves visible to whoever and whenever they want to (remember there are more than three existing dimensions). That is so because they are pure spirits by nature, unlike the (nephilim) demons.
Well, this is a summary of how I understand it. Any other ideas on this? I know it gets quite confusing and it may seem like hairsplitting but if you want to study these things into more detail you simply need a correct terminology.
That is pretty much my position as well. I talk about that in my article on Aliens. I believe what we call demons are wandering spirits whose bodies were destroyed in the flood and they are looking for bodies to possess. They are the spirits of the offspring of angels and woman. Many confuse them with angels of Satan but they are not. The fallen Angels that follow Satan when cast onto the earth will have tremendous supernatural powers. It will be as if they were Gods.
By the way, I am tired of the nonsense in the comments so I am now moderating all comments on this blog. There will be at least a short delay before new posts by anyone appears.
I believe you amke some excellent points, Nasrani. I tend to believe that the ancient myths of demi-gods and such could have their basis in the fact of the angelic intrusion. It is interesting that in most of these myths it is usually a male “god” coming down to procreate with a female human. One never reads of Hera, Artemis or Isis engaging in such acts.
Also, your thoughts on demons possibly being the disembodied spirits of the Nephilm is something I also considered. Luke 8 comes to mind:
Luke 8:30 And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him.
Luke 8:31 And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep.
Luke 8:32 And there was there an herd of many swine feeding on the mountain: and they besought him that he would suffer them to enter into them. And he suffered them.
Luke 8:33 Then went the devils out of the man, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the lake, and were choked.
It seems these demons greatly desire to possess a body, whether it be man or swine. Of course they feared of judgement, but it is strange that they did not just ask to be cast out to roam, but wanted permission to inhabit another physical creature. I don’t quite understand why they would inhabit the swine only to run into the water and die. Maybe they didn’t know they pigs would react like that or they just throew a big temper tantrum. It just seems strange to me. Who knows, perhaps Goliath of Gath is still roaming about lamenting getting his head handed to him by a young, Jewish, shepherd boy!
It seems that whatever these demonic creatures are, inhabiting the physical is very important to them. And I agree that fallen angels don’t seem to fit the bill as they can assume a physical form that can be seen and eat food as in the case of Abraham withhisvisit from the Lord and His two angels.
Anyway, this is good stuff and I’ll be checking out your links.
Thanks again and GBU.
Well based on the information on this blog about the book of Enoch. I came to a conclusion that the Book of Enoch was inspired. I do believe God allowed it to be corrupted so that men cannot figure out what these fallen angels are trying to accomplish. This action will fulfilled the prophecy in 2Thessalonians 2:11. I think the prophecy is already starting to be fulfilled due to the fact that more and more people are believing in evolution. So when the angels encounter with these humanists they will convince them that they can help humanity to evolve to a higher state. For the religious folks, I see them being deceived because there will be angels who will claim that they are from God. They will convinced these folks that they are sent here to guide them in life or help them in their “ministry”. For examples go here http://www.youtube.com/user/LocalPastor
I think another things christians get caught up on is this.
Whether or not the book is inspired or not is not so much the question.
the Question should be
IS THIS A ACCURATE HISTORY AND ACCOUNT OF WHAT HAPPENED.
Of course when you do your homework you realize it is.
i am not sure on this subject that i’m about to mention, but in Job 26:5, its speaks of “dead things are formed from under the waters”. Dead meaning rephaim?, i have read on several websites that waters are actually more closely related to the fluid of the double helix coil as we know it today. Now the word rephaim meaning dead AND i believe also could mean giant as well, could not these fallen angel truly been what we would call aliens today,…they TOOK whom they chose, maybe they were genetic engineering back then. Aliens are supposedly doing the same thing. Maybe that is what Jesus was saying about Noahs day is going to happen again, These aliens (fallen Angels) are at it again. the reintroduction to earth by the roswell incident. Human sex cells being removed during abductions, cattle mutilations…cattle is 83% close to human dna. I think that these beings have been giving mankind knowledge through the centuries and now they have introduced us to genetic engineering.
I am not sure about the meaning of the Rephaim but I have been saying the Nephilim descended from Women and fallen angels and that the fallen angels will come in the guise of Aliens when they are cast unto the earth with Satan. It is possible that they are again trying to create a human/angel hybrid as an evolutionary leap forward deception for man and this could actually tie into taking the mark of the Beast.
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/reasons/aliens.HTM
Very interesting.
I believe that the fallen angels came to earth and mated with the women but there is one question that is stuck on my mind.
Since the angels of heaven do not marry or given in marriage how then the fallen angels were able to reproduce then since they were at one time angels of God?
It says angels in heaven do not marry it does not say angels cannot reproduce. Remember before the curse reproduction was also quite different.
What do u mean by reproduction was different before the curse?
Justin I would also like to add that these angels left their first estate and lived on earth and took woman and produced offspring called the Nephilum and for that these angels are now chained awaiting judgment. So technically none of these angels were angels in heaven when Jesus made that statement. However, the whole context of the passage is about marriage for resurrected people. Resurrected people will not get married except the Church to Jesus since marriage is strictly a natural human ordnance and a spiritual mystery about Jesus and His spiritual Bride. I have never even heard of two animals getting married although I am now aware that human asses of the same sex are now claiming marriage.
Actually the only marriage that takes place in heaven is the marriage of Jesus to his spiritual Church.
As for your last question, we do not know how life reproduced before the curse. Eve came out of the side of Adam and there was to be no pain in child birth since that came with the curse. There was also no death or suffering among animals so maybe all life was created to reproduce much like an amoeba.
We simple do not know these things.
Thanks for clarifying. I found a good article written by John MacArthur on Genesis 6 http://www.gty.org/Resources/Study+Guide+Chapter/2124
well dont be surprise soon when a 13yr old girl and a 40yr old man gets married or some person decides to marry their animal.
But I would not be surprise if there is alot of abuse in a “queer marriage”.
This is a good article on the subject and I am Glad to see that a great teacher like John MacArthur generally agrees with what I said on these often confused passages.
Here is a article on Genesis 6 on the Answers in Genesis website. http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/aid/v2/n1/who-were-the-nephilim
Brodie Hodge of AiG talked about the different views of Gen. 6 But it seems like he refutes the belief that the “sons of God” were fallen angels.
I still hold the belief that they were fallen angles though. I would like to know what u think about this article.
Why would you expect me to even read the different views on this issue just because you provide a link to them? I already know the different views and only one holds water. I certainly am not going to debate all the views on the different theories on Genesis 6 in the comment section of a post when there is not even a debate suggested from that person.
The Answers in Genesis Website even says it does not take a position on the different views on this issue, yet you think I am going to take the time to refute his own speculation of which view is the most acceptable to him?
Obviously he goes with the sons of Seth theory because that is the view held by the majority of Christianity and so it is the safe position to take. That is because many people will not teach this passage unless they can explain to people that everything happened naturally. Never mind, that their make up theory is not even logical and that it conflicts with other biblical passages. The Sons of Seth theory brings up more questions than it answers. It also does explain what is recorded in ancient extra biblical accounts like the book of Enoch, the writing of Josephus as well as others. It also does not answer the account of beings coming down as gods in many different ancient cultures.
My position on this is given in my article on Aliens and it has links to more comprehensive information on this topic. My position answers the questions while the Sons of Seth Theory just makes things up to try to provide a natural acceptable answer that will not offend those who only accept what they see on earth now.
He claims the meaning of word Nephilim is not known and claims that all giants were not Nephilum. Neither is true. The word Nephilim originates from the Aramaic word Nephila. Since most teachers are not ancient Hebrew language scholars they make stupid mistakes with Hebrew words and sometimes give them meaning that are wrong. The facts are, if the Hebrew word used is a passive participle it means “fallen ones” and Nephila in Aramaic is the root of this word and that word in Aramic means “giant” So the word is telling us that these beings were sired by fallen beings and they were gigantic. I do not know how he explains 9 to 12 foot giants by normal procreation? Why did the sons of Seth produce giants on the earth just because they married the daughters of Cain? Why would God cause a worldwide flood because all flesh became corrupted if the flesh of man and animals had not become corrupted?
The bottom line is do not go to a General Practitioner when you want answers on difficult passages. Go to a Specialist. You had my view and John MacAuther’s view. I do not know why you now have to ask me to take a position on tired old theories that we already indicated that we totally disagree with.
Thanks for the response. I did not mean to aggravate you. Mr. Hodge just quoted a few verses like Luke 3:38 and Numbers 13:33 and so forth and his article seem pretty convincing to me. I am still learning about the different views on this subject. I do appreciate the info about the word nephilim.
Its not that you aggravated me. When I have to take time to look at the links you post that you ask me to respond to, I cannot then be doing other things like posting other topics on my blog. If you would just read the articles on the original post and the links you would have most of the answers anyway. If you wanted to know about my view on specific biblical passage he brought up you should have been more specific. Otherwise, I have to read the whole article on the link you provided and respond on it all to satisfy your request.
thanks for taking time to read the links and answering my questions. I will for now on quit dishing out links for you to read.
Posting on topic links are fine with me. Just do not expect me to comment on the articles that you link to. If you have a question for me on the topic being discussed you need to be specific.
It is good to see that the Book of Enoch is stirring these kinds of conversations. Curiously, the Book of Enoch (Ethiopic version) begins by addressing the elect that will be alive in the Day of Tribulation… the last generation. Which is to say that this book was written for the end times church. How interesting that this book was lost (except in Ethiopia) until this last century. Certainly the book of Enoch is useful in understanding the beginning and the end. We must remember that the Gen. 6 angels are chained in darkness and await the Judgement, so they can’t possibly be involved in any future events on the earth, apart from the Judgement. It is also important to note that the flood did not stop the mingling of angelic and human blood, there were Nephilim after the flood found in many stories of the Old Testament. This implies that more angels transgressed their boundaries and mated with human women even after the original occurrence. In fact there is reason to believe that the mingling of bloods is still happening in our day. There are many reports and stories of woman who are raped continually by demons. I live in Peru, and such things are not uncommon here. It is obvious that many angels can take on the form of men and women, and thus wear the human body like a garment. It is apparent that angels have seed, what living thing does not have the ability to reproduce? It would seem that God created all life with the ability to spawn more life. This is debatable and not crucial to my point, however, we must assume that since giants were “born” through these woman that there was reproductive activity, and according to Enoch 7:1 the angels “began to go in unto them, and to defile themselves with them…” which obviously means that the angels had intercourse with the daughters of men. Has anyone read or seen Beowolf? Interesting is it not? the same kind of story… Anyways… heres my thoughts on our adversaries strategy concerning the union of angelic and human blood. Satan has been very careful to conceal the truth of the Nephilim, I do not believe that he will be parading them in the streets anytime soon. However consider this, Satan often replicates the works of God and devises counterfeits to the truth. This is actually his greatest tool against the church, the power of deception based on the truth. Therefore, I submit that the beast spoken of in Revelation, the “anti-christ”, will be a replication of the true Christ. He will come of a virgin birth, and carry the blood of his father Satan, just as Jesus was born of Mary and was the son of His Father in heaven. We know that the beast is wounded fatally in the head and will probably die briefly as a result, but his wound will be miraculous healed and he will live. This will of course be a counterfeit resurrection. All people groups and cultures will hail him as the “Messiah” and he will bring peace to the world, for a season. I do not believe that the devil we need to incorporate any kind of Alien rues to deceive the world, he has been doing it quite well without Aliens for many centuries.
Timothy said,
“It is also important to note that the flood did not stop the mingling of angelic and human blood, there were Nephilim after the flood found in many stories of the Old Testament. This implies that more angels transgressed their boundaries and mated with human women even after the original occurrence.”
That is probably not true or those Angels would be chained as well. The giant genetics after the flood could have come through one or more of the wives of the Son’s of Noah. This could be the reason why God told Israel to kill every man woman and child in the land of Canaan where these giants lived. In other words, to purge the earth of people who still still carried a gene that was not descended from Adam.
Also, fallen angels and demons are not the same thing. I believe when the Nephilim’s physical bodies were destroyed their spirit lived on because they were half angel. They now wander the earth looking for a body to possess. The book of Enoch implies this as does the New Testament accounts of demons. On the other hand, angels bodies cannot be destroyed and when taking physical form they always appear as very large men. Demons are sons of Satan in a sense since they descended from Satan’s angels but they are not angels.
Your explanation of the Antichrist counterfeiting Christ might seem reasonable at first but it cannot happen. Satan cannot create human life so the Antichrist is not going to come from a virgin. That would not be necessary anyway since unbelievers do not think Jesus Christ came from a virgin either. The Antichrist will be thought to be the fulfillment of all major religions on the earth not just the Jews and apostate Christianity.
I think when Satan is cast out of Heaven he will take over this man and claim to be above anything called God. That really makes me think he will claim to be the God of God’s people once called Zeus. Then He will deceive the world to fight against the coming of a tribal God called YHWH or Jesus Christ. How else could the world be deceived into fighting the coming of the real Jesus Christ unless supernatural beings were deceiving them, telling them that they could stop His coming?
Demons, aliens, false religion and the occult all lead to the same end. They are just different twists on the same deception.
This is not necessarily true. The Watchers were a high order of angels and as such may have borne a more severe punishment for their transgression. Or perhaps more Watchers fell in like manner and were punished in like manner. One thing is for certain, none of the people on the ark carried the blood line. Noah and his family were chosen to continue human life on earth, why would God have chosen to allow the unholy bloodline to continue through them? The fall of angels is not a singular event that occurred in history, it is a reoccurring event that continues to this day. Satan fell before the Watchers, and he was not chained up at all. In fact he still has access to certain levels of the heavens, even accusing us before the father. Surely Satan’s sin would have been counted more severe than the Watchers.
What makes you think that the Watchers could produce offspring and not Satan? Satan is not concerned with counterfeiting lies, but the truth. He doesn’t have to deceive unbelievers, they are already in his kingdom and totally deceived. It is the church that he seeks to deceive, and will use a christ-like man to do it. A virgin birth would be hailed as miraculous in any religion and taken as a sign of divinity, not christianity.
Satan covets Jesus’ throne. He will produce his own “christ” and his “christ” will govern the Nations for a season, and then, just as Jesus will give His kingdom to God the Father after 1000 years, so Satan’s “christ” will give his kingdom to his father who will in that day be worshipped as a god. However, the people will know that the Lord is God because of the power demonstrated through the end times church, they will simply despise Him and His people. Satan will not claim to be Zeus, he wants worship for who is he is, and will finally reveal himself to the Nations, but as an angel of light.
Actually, you really have no idea what rank of order watchers are in heaven and if they get different punishments. At least you are not getting this concept from the Bible.
Noah was chosen because he was righteous in his generation which can also be interpreted that he was genealogical pure. Now why in the would would that be true with Noah’s sons wives? They are not mentioned as being righteous in their generations. If everyone but Noah and his sons already had corrupted genetics the wives of Noah’s sons wives had to be allowed on the ark for a couple of reasons. Noah sons would not have come without their wives and there would be no woman to repopulate the earth. God obviously would have known that he was going to deal with the gene issue later. By the little that we are told you cannot assume you know what happened or also assume you know the way that God would use to keep the linage from Adam pure, (so the kinsman redeemer could come from Adam and pay the blood price for Adam’s sin and redeem man). Using the same logic as you did with Noah’s sons wives, why would God chain angels that brought about the events where he had to destroy all flesh and then allow angels to come after the flood to do it all over again?
Your the one who keeps saying that Satan will bring the Antichrist through a virgin birth. Reproduction between Satan and a woman is not a virgin birth. I agree that Satan will bring a type of Christ but the word Christ just means “anointed”. All major religious are looking for some type of anointed one (Christ). Satan cannot deceive the Church about the Antichrist we have the Holy Spirit. In fact the Antichrist cannot even come until the restrainer in us is removed.
Satan covets the throne of God and wants to be worshiped as God. If he wanted only Jesus Throne on earth Satan would not have offered it to Jesus. Instead Satan will offer it to the Antichrist but the Antichrist is not Satan.
You are wrong Satan actually does deceive those that have not accepted Jesus Christ. That is what the great commission to the Church is all about. We are to preach the good news to the whole world so those that hear and believe can be freed from bondage to Satan. If unbelievers were all totally deceived and already in Satan’s kingdom why even preach the gospel of salvation? Everyone in the Church was in darkness and deceived by Satan before they got saved.
What power demonstrated through the end times church are you even talking about? Where in scripture is it found that the Church is going to fight the Antichrist? The Church is out of here before the Antichrist even arrives on the scene. You must believe in heretical Kingdom Now Theology.
I was talking about the Antichrist the Antichrist is not Satan. At least I have scriptural grounds for saying that the Antichrist will claim to be Zeus. In the letter to Pergamos in Revelation Jesus said Satan’s throne was located there. The only throne that was located at Pergamos was a huge altar to Zeus and as I speak the ruins of the altar to Zeus is being restored. Zeus is also known as the God of Gods. The Antichrist is certainly not going to claim to be Satan since scripture says that Satan and the Antichrist have different roles before they end up in the Lake of Fire.
Much of what you posted here is just your own subjective speculations you cannot prove most of what you said from scripture.
I have read through several posts on this site and would like to make a few observations, If I may be permitted.
Moses did say that “ben elohim” “laqach bath Adam” [the Hebrew for Genesis 6:2] and produced giants by going in to them before the flood and also after the flood.
The chained Watchers were chained in Sheol at the time of the flood, as Enoch states, and Jude states that they were chained as a warning to other angels who would be tempted to do the same fornication, just as the nuking of Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities of the plain were warnings to fornicating sodomites to not do that.
1 Enoch [Ethiopion Enoch] is written in parables, and many of them are now understood, like the Son of Man in heaven who was with God, hidden, kept secret, who was God, and who was to come, die, make an end of sin, rise, take the righteous from Sheol when He rose, come again, regenerate the heavens and earth, and unite the redeemed with the Father, through Him, and that through and in His name[ which name was secret until its revealing, as pr Enoch], the redeemed would be saved.
Enoch is the first book of instruction about the second consummation of sin on earth by the Tribulation, and he wrote of the flood was the first consummation of sin on earth.
In 1 Enoch the pre-tribulation rapture of the righteous is in the parable of chapter 50. Those who see and repent get no glory, but in His name they are saved. The unrepentant will perish.
Enoch saw the Son of Man in heaven as the Holy Anointed One, and he saw Him as God, and as the Son of Man in heaven, who was to come.
There is another history book which is valid and correlates with Genesis and which was a longer version of the history of the world, as experienced by the line of the Patriarchs, from Adam to Moses. That book is called the Book of the Upright, or the book of Jasher, and within its pages it states that Moses wrote it, and that Joshua finished it. Moses’ Genesis’account is a redacted record of that which he wrote called the Book of the Upright -Jasher.
Jasher does not deal with the fallen Watchers [judges over earth, the dans, in Jasher] much, as that is in Enoch, but it does say that if men had repented of their evil then the flood would not have come upon the earth. Men had 120 years to repent, and they did not, yet in Jasher, not all the men on earth were wicked or corrupted in their blood lines, and they who were not wicked or corrupted were all taken away before the flood, with Methusaleh being the last, so that they would not witness the flood which would sweep the unrepentant away [as said in Isaiah 57:1].
You can access the real book of Jasher [there are frauds] at http://www.ccel.org. http://www.ccel.org/a/anonymous/jasher/real.htm
More, on the comments on this site-
Moses did write that the sons of God/ben elohim took/laqach daughters of Adam/bath Adam, and went into them and giants were born of them before and after the flood.
Those watchers who fornicated with “bath Adam” before the flood were chained as warnings, states Jude, and they could only be warnings to other Watchers/ ben elohim, who would afterwards be tempted by the ’satans’ to do the same.
Jude equates the fornication of the Sodomites and the cities of the plain with the fornication of the angels who sinned with daughters of Adam, and he states that the ‘nuking’ of Sodom and the cities of the plain [ancient peoples did have nukes, and you can read about them in the ancient hindu scriptures -which are really just narratives of the doings of the fallen angels and the sons of Adam] , were warnings to others…
Other angels did fall in the same fornicating sins after the flood, and the history of their offspring in Canaan and the world is available to read, not just in the Bible [in Canaan] but in ancient histories still available. The giants/titans burned Rome, at one time, and ancient historians report on the wars Rome’s armies had with the giants, and their conquering of them at last.
Goliath and his four brothers were descended from Anak, an offspring of Watcher.
Every living soul/creatures who had the breath of life, and dwelt on the land perished in the flood; and not one breathing, living soul outside the ark remained alive, states the OT and the book of Jasher.
So those who claim that the titans/giants/nephillim survied the flood are not believing what the Word does say, which does say that angels did take bath Adam after the flood, and before the flood, and giants were born to them.
They did this sin even though they had been warned, and no, they are not chained, but the doom of the first ones is stated in Enoch, and it is the doom of all the fallen ones, in the end.
Men also commit the same type of fornication and iniquity as those in Sodom and the cities of the plain did, which brought the wrath of God upon them [which is told in Jasher chapter 18 and 19, BTW, and redacted in the OT http://www.ccel.org/a/anonymous/jasher/18.htm; and http://www.ccel.org/a/anonymous/jasher/19.htm; but they are not all nuked, either, who commit the iniquities and fornications of the five citiesm but the warning of Sodom and those cities is their warning, also, to take heed.
Jud 1:5-7 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality /fornication] and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
The Book of Enoch was too deep I believe to be put in the Bible. I do not believe God had any intentions of allowing it in the Bible.
The Book is very deep and I believe for some things one MUST have the Holy Spirit. As I read some of it for the first time just a few months ago, it spoke clearly to me. I understood why it was not allowed in the Bible.
I believe God hand was in not allowing it. Though I truly believe it is the inspired Word of God. It was confirmation to me on some things. It is not for everybody to understand at all.
The majority are still debating on the elementary things of God, no way they can understand the deeper things of God. Still debating on baptism and such…..
I just ran across a you tube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fTkvkkFAd0) about the book of Enoch. Fascinating stuff. This guy though is all up in arms about how we should be looking at the book of Enoch because Jude and 2nd Peter write about it and reference it. I’m not sure though what his main point is. Someone asked him if he was a gnostic and he replied that he didn’t like labels. Maybe he’s an alien believer? Who knows.
I think there’s a reason that most Christians give up on really knowing the Bible and doctrine. There are just too many competing theologies and philosophies: “THIS IS THE TRUTH, IT’S BEEN HIDDEN FROM YOU!!” and then another says, “DON’T LISTEN TO THOSE IDIOTS. THEY’RE GOING TO BURN IN HELL!!!” I think it causes many to not believe in Christ at all. And then if you do manage to come to some sort of faith, you’re presented with all of the wonderful theological arguments and eschatological aruments: “Calvin was right! Follow TULIP.” and the opposing views say, “No, no, no. Arminius was right!” Then there’s pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib, no-trib, Pre Milenial, Post Milenial, Amilenial. And then there’s the more subtle ideas of preterism, non-canonical books, the issues of God’s law, etc. ad infinitum.
I tell you , I’m exhausted. I don’t want to know the truth anymore. I don’t want to burn in hell or be dead forever (depending on which version of hell you believe of course). [Sigh] Solomon was right. Knowledge is wearisome and of the making of many books there is no end.
[Sigh, again, because I need another sigh
] I’m going to agree with Solomon from Ecclesiastes 5:18-20: “Here is what I have seen: It is good and fitting for one to eat and drink, and to enjoy the good of all his labor in which he toils under the sun all the days of his life which God gives him; for it is his heritage. 19 As for every man to whom God has given riches and wealth, and given him power to eat of it, to receive his heritage and rejoice in his labor—this is the gift of God. 20 For he will not dwell unduly on the days of his life, because God keeps him busy with the joy of his heart.”
You do not have to know all correct theology to be saved and live the Christian life. All you really need for faith and Christian practice is clearly explained in the New Testament. As John said,
John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Other truth’s can certainly be known by Christians but it takes study and understanding of God’s word. There are not multiple truths. Only one interpretation of any passages is ultimately correct. If you want to be wise in the understanding of the scriptures you really need to strive for wisdom and understand. Those are spiritual gifts of God given to those who seek them and they are refined by study and by sitting under the teaching of wise Christian teachers. I do not suggest that all Christians have the time or ability to get all theology correct. That is why Christian elders in the local assembly primary need to pick good shepherds that will watch over their local flock.
The argument that even experts cannot agree on theology are about non essentials of the faith so don’t over blow the problem and use that as some excuse for not believing the essentials of the faith that are required to believe for faith and practice. John speaks of these essentials so that you can know you are saved in the passage above and in other passages of his books.
Biff said,
You’re right, the scriptures contain all the knowledge that one needs to be saved.
An understanding of God’s word is what is needed in order to be born again.
The reason God (Jesus Christ) said “I gave you Moses and the Prophets” is a honest indication as to why there is no record of the Book of Enoch in the Bible. The Book of Enoch is not from the days of the Pre flood era nor is it an accurate record, it is a sort of off the shelf, type of book like today, where descriptions of the things in the Torah, are taken further, and deliberately offers a distortion of Genesis.
The meanings of words and understanding of truths that harmonise with all scriptures are missing in the Book of Enoch, and is easily discerned.
http://hubpages.com/hub/Sons-of-Nephilim-a-Hoax
There are many theories why the Book of Enoch is not in the Canon. Some arguments are already discussed here.
I agree that the Book of Enoch that we have is not inspired by God but there are quite a few ancient accounts of angles producing an offspring with women besides just the Book of Enoch.
Your link gives the opposing sons of Seth argument but many of these things have already been addressed in the article and comments here.
If you want another view from a scholar that opposes your Sons of Seth view and much of what you said in your article here is a link to John MacAuthur’s teaching on this.
http://www.gty.org/Resources/Study+Guide+Chapter/2124
I find it very difficult for me to believe that all the Sons of Seth were Sons of God and all the daughter of Cain were of the devil when everyone on the earth except Noah was doing evil before the flood.
This link will address that concept and much more.
http://www.mt.net/~watcher/enoch5.html
Don
Thanks Don, I went through the links trying to be level headed, but after a while, they dont issue much depth in the descriptions and seem to be leading, rather than revealing.
I wont comment on their errors, but this, They do not magnify that Jesus was there in the begining
Man was once immortal, as in the image and likeness of God .
We are now restored to our original state, and only time has to complete its course.
There is not much said in the Bible about this so I do not know how anyone goes into a whole lot of depth on this issue just from the Bible.
On the other hand, with your Sons of Seth theory you have to read a whole lot into what the Bible actually says and contradict historians like Josephus. It simply makes no sense that the sons of Seth were all saved believers called the Sons of God and the daughters of Cain were all unbelievers. No one is saved through genealogy..
It also makes no sense to think that marrying an unbeliever would produce a mighty offspring that God called Nephilim. By the way, your idea in your article that all these giants were only 8 or 9 feet is not likely. The bed of Og after the flood was 9 cubits or 13.5 feet. That length was put in the Bible to tell us the size of the man, not his bed. It is likely that the people mentioned before the flood as mighty men of renown were even bigger. Also, where are the mighty men of renown even found? They are found in what we now call mythology.( i.e Hercules etc.). It was not all myth.
Myths, yes I agree only myths like Evolution, and then there are many myths, which are in truth distortions of the truth, which reminds me of Romans 1 where Paul actually states where the world would pervert the truth. Like Science, Evolution, Homosexuality, Beastiality, etc. in an attempt to make the Gospel look like a lie.