Your quote:

“If the churches were properly doing their job big government would not be enslaving us in their programs of secular humanism and running our lives.”

When I attended a small country church in North Carolina, I remember a young couple who lost everything when their apartment burned down, on a Thursday I believe. By Sunday, that couple had food, clothing, furniture and $1,000 spending money. And this was a small church with a membership of 400 people, maybe 150 in regular attendance. Name a government program that could do that! That’s the way the church should operate.

Anyway, a nice, concise and informative reply to Betty.

GBU

Kev

From what you just said you obviously attend a seeker Church.

Years ago I wrote an article about what I think of the seeker movement.

http://www.thepropheticyears.com/comments/Seeker%20friendly.htm

The whole Idea of a seeker service on Sunday and a believers service on Wednesday originates from the philosophy of the church growth guru’s who measure success by Sunday attendance. The fact is that seeker services does not grow the true Church. Even Bill Hybels of Willow Creek who was one of the big pushers of the seeker movement has recently admitted that the seeker movement was a failure. It did not produce more Christians and many Christians that attended seeker churches did not mature.

Church gathering are where believers are supposed to meet and fellowship. It is not a show put on for unbelievers to make them feel comfortable in church. You know as well as I do that for various reasons most Christians will not attend on Wednesday to learn sound doctrine so most who attend these seeker churches get nothing but a feel good message on Sunday.

Seeker churches are one of the main reasons why we now have a whole generation of old biblically illiterate baby Christians. The time that should have been used for good teaching and to mature believers was used to entertain non believers.

Churches are free to do what they want for their own membership but whatever they do should always be for the equipping of the saints to build up the body of Christ. Good programs sponsored by churches are fine as long as they keep the proper focus. That focus should be on the growth of the spirital man. It should not be focused on enabling people to depend on their flesh. Unfortunately many of programs in churches today originate from theories of psychology rather than the teachings in the Bible.

To answer your questions, everyone should learn how to handle their finances in a biblical way and if the church can help teach this it is doing you a good service. However, if it teaches you to depend on your riches it is doing you a disservice. Any teaching on this should begin with this fact. Everything you have in this world belongs to God and you are simply a steward.

Discernment is really not a gift of the Spirit as some like to say. The Bible talks about a gift of discerning of spirits. This is really not the same thing as learning to discern what God wants you to do. Discernment comes from learning and understanding God’s word, fellowship with God in prayer and it comes through practice in real life experiences. Good discernment is a end result of the sanctification process where the spirit man learns to take control over his flesh. That is why people should not go to a novice for good advice. Go to those who have learned to discerned right from wrong in whatever area you need more discernment. In most cases that means you would seek the advice of elders of the Church.

Sanctification takes time. Christians throughout their lives are in the possess of being sanctified and no one reaches perfection while still in the flesh.

The Church should provide both for the spiritual and the physical needs of the Body. We are to be our brothers keeper. If the churches were properly doing their job big government would not be enslaving us in their programs of secular humanism and running our lives.

One of the duties of the Church is to mature the saints. So if your going to a church that does that through good teaching and through Godly council you would be wise to listen. The problem is that many churches today are not maturing the saints they are just catering to the expectations of a worldly postmodern generation.

Thanks again for another thought-provoking article and post. In all honesty, I am not sure what my church teaches, and am not sure how to find out. We have a good and solid bible teaching church, but often have “workshops” to improve our lives. Although these workshops focus on improvement, they are biblical and God centered: Have a problem with your finances, this is what the bible says…Trouble raising teens, this is what the bible says. It seems to me that the line is a sketchy one, and once again, I am grateful for the opportunity to take a realistic look at how I am growing in Christ.

We have had services on sanctification: mostly on Wednesday nights, which we refer to as the believer’s service, and actually make that our primary service. We have seen the difference in this service and the Christian-lite messages on Sunday morning. But we do believe in sanctification through the Holy Spirit, and not self-help through human wisdom, and I guess we get this message more through Oswald Chambers “My Utmost for His Highest” than through our church.

Some questions that come to mind:

If I am saved, do I lose anything by learning how to better run my finances, home, relationships, provided that knowledge is biblically based? I can see the pitfalls for the unsaved who are cleaning up their lives, but what of the saved who are seeking to do the same? Not for the sake of personal prosperity, but to bring their lives, finances, homes, etc. into line with God’s word.

Doesn’t discernment come to people by the Holy Spirit, and isn’t sanctification a process that comes through biblical knowledge and living? There are things i find abhorrant today that I sat on the fence about 5 years ago. Not all people are convicted about the same things, and it takes little, and sometimes big nudges from the Holy Spirit to change a heart, at least in my experience.

Is it possible for a church to serve both needs, physical and spiritual? After all, we all still have to eat, and work and be in relationships. But perhaps we are seeking this in the wrong way.

For the record, I do not buy into the prosperity gospel, and do not think a Christian life should be filled with happiness or security. I take seriously the pitfalls that arise from that. Shortly after being saved I was diagnosed with cancer, in addition to personal crisis. Today, I believe that I was tested in my faith, but the testing has not stopped. When things go wrong, as they often do, I truly believe it is God’s way of getting my attention. But since I lived more of my life unsaved than saved, I do seek biblical wisdom through my church because I still struggle to work things out. Perhaps this is not good for me, or my family because it sets us up for wrong interpretation, I am just not sure that we would not also be there if we were waiting for a “word from the lord”.

Betty