56 thoughts on “A critique of the book “Isralestine” that suggests that the war of Psalm 83 is imminent”

1. How close does it appear that the destruction of Damascus is at this point in time?

2. Pretty darn close but I am not setting dates.

3. And here, I thought you were a graduate of the Camping School of Date Setting!!

4. His school would not give me a honorary PHD in Eschatology so I told Camping he will have to figure out the dates without my help. Apparently the moron believed he could and now you see the results.

5. I personally think Bill Salus is fairly accurate. I gave “Isralestine” a review for Amazon (Martin Horan Crusader) about a year or so ago. Then, I wasn’t sure about all of it and said why: I had thought the Gog and Magog war of Ezekiel was to come after the 1000 year millenium but due to my initial reading of “Isralestine” was having second thoughts. Besides, I realized that I was probably wanting “Isralestine” to be true to see the final defeat of psychopathic Islamists and the judgment of Islam per se. However, judging by the way things have started to erupt recently in the Middle East, I think Bill’s book is showing itself to being verified. Since my review, I have started to compare not only the Scriptures but also other Christian writers–Dave Hunt, for example, who I find to be one of the most Scriptural, logical and objective when it comes to biblical prophecy.
   Thanks for your site.

6. Martin,

   Thanks for your input, Dave Hunt is also one of my favorite teachers.

7. Hi Don. Sorry to be so slow in getting back to you. I’m glad to hear that Dave’s one of your favourite teachers. I’m sure that Bill from Texas was being facetious: You don’t strike me as beingin the Camping camp! I find you as being very objective–which you’re bound to be if you’re a reader of Dave Hunt, one of the soundest writers I can think of scripturally and one of the most lost logical. I hope the Lord blesses your site.

8. HI Martin,

   You obviously mean Bob from Texas.
   Yeah, Bob is a regular on this Blog. He knows my views and we are in agreement on most issues.

   Dave Hunt is one of the greatest Christian apologists of our time.

9. Hi Don,

   I’ve just finished reading “Isralestine” and am going to read it again as there is so much in it that it’s hard to take it all in the first time. I found it fascinating and quite plausible but I also think your own interpretation of the Psalm 83 war makes a lot of sense.

   One thing that really jumped out at me was how specific the Bible is in relation to prophecies.
   Psalm 83 refers to the “tents of Edom.” Bill Salus shows the ancestral connection between Edom and the Palestinians quite comprehensively, in my opinion, and then goes on to point out that tents in the Bible refers to refugees and/or military camps. Quite amazing when you think of the current situation of the Palestinians.
   Thanks for your blog, Don, it’s so interesting and informative.

10. Hi, I’m in the process of studying Mr. Salus’ book. While I find some interpretive stretching, it is certainly a helpful study on Bible prophecy. I’m a huge fan of Mr. Fruchtenbaum who he references. My sense is that Salus misrepresents Eze 37 and it’s reference to the 1) “exceeding great army”; & 2) “open your graves”. It’s a stretch to claim that army to me a military one, although it is well know Israel today has a strong military. But the reference to the opening of their graves is the ressurection of Jews who died in faith and are part of “the whole house of Israel”. (Eze 37:11) I believe that army is a spiritual army of the Lord after the ressurection.

    I’ve written an article titled “The Ressurection and the Raptures” which I would be pleased to have your review if I could send it to you via email. It’s a different take from the various views on the doctrine of the Rapture we have argued among us today. I believe it can convive the students of Bible prophecy that there is a series of Raptures that will take place and as I see it, helps blend together the worthy views of those who hold to a pre, mid and post trib rapture. Let me know if I can send it for your review.

11. Pastor Bill,

    You can find my email if you click on my name in the top bar.

    I wrote an article on the dry bones passage in Ezekiel 37 a couple of months ago but I did not published it because I thought there was a good chance that I had it wrong. Basically the theme was that the resurrection described did not support the current idea that the Jews returning to the land today in unbelief are a fulfillment of this dry bones prophecy. It seemed to me that it is talking about a literal physical resurrection of the whole house of Israel.

    I really need to look at the article that I wrote again and Ezekiel 37, and see why I thought my interpretation would not fly. I actually was thinking about doing that even before you sent this.

12. I’d be interesting in your commentary of Eze 37. Salus interprets the reference “grave” as that of “a grave like condition”, implying a very serious situation. But the word grave is the Hebrew one for a “sepulchre”.

    As I see it Ezekiel 37 and the “dry bones” is NOT one of the many references foretelling us that would gather the scattered living Jews back to their home land of Israel as we see happening since 1948. That gathering of Jews are those alive on earth but who are still in unbelief.

    As I see it, Eze 37 is referring to the Whole house of Israel(vrs 11) after the ressurection and leading into the Millennum where they will be a house of believers with God’s Spirit in them. (vrs 14) Verse 15-28 adds that the divided nation would become one nation again with King David (also rasied from the dead; ie… Eze 34:23, Jer 30:9, Hos 3:5) becoming a Prince and King unto them during the Millennium under of course the Reign of our Lord Jesus Christ.

13. Pastor Bill,

    I thought I kept it as a draft but I just looked and it is not there. I must have blew it off. Perhaps I will start from scratch again if I can justifying doing that after more study on this chapter.

    You may be correct but obviously I found one or more difficulties supporting that view otherwise I would have published my own article. I really do not remember what the problem was, so I have to look at the whole thing again (Darn, I wish I would have kept the draft!).

14. Review of the Book “Isralestine” by Bill Salus

    The book is an outstanding study. For the average Bible student the book might be difficult because of the accumulation of so many prophetic details alluded to and expounded upon. A more simplistic account can be viewed in a TV interview Mr. Salus did for David Reagan’s ministry: “Lamb and Lion Ministries”.
    http://lamblion.com/television/programs/_pretrib9-salus.php

    First: I have one problem with a point of reference he makes to connect the dots toward his view of:
    a) A probable Arab genocidal attack on the nation of present day Israel
    b) An Israeli military victory against 10 Arab nations and their terrorist
    associates
    c) Israel’s land expansion (takeover) of those Arab territories
    d) Israel’s spoils of war to include dwelling safely and wealthy in that land

    Second: I offer two points that have not yet been featured in Ps 83 that does connect the dots in support of Mr. Salus’ revelation.

    The Problem: Mr. Salus points to a phrase in Ezek 37:10 “exceeding great army” as an indicator that Israel as a nation would become a military force in these last days. While it is true Israel today does have the mightiest Military Defensive Force in the Middle East Region, the Ezekiel reference does not allude to that fact for these reasons.

    1)The Dry Bones reference in (Ezek 37:1-11) is a reference to the “Whole House of Israel”, not the present State of Israel. It is not as Salus suggests a vision of 1947 and the beginning of the State of Israel.
    2)The chapter relates to events that pertain to the Millennial Reign which immediately follows the return of Christ. Here is the evidence!
    a) The resurrection of the dead takes place, including all Jews who died in faith.
    b) Their graves (sepultures) will be opened. (Eze 37:12-13) These graves are not
    as Mr. Salus suggests: A reference to a “grave like situation”.
    c) God will put His Spirit in them (they will be born again believers), (Eze 37:14) a spiritual
    condition not at all what the Israelites gathered into Israel are today. Presently they are in
    a state of unbelief not rebirth.
    d) The once divided nation of Israel will become one nation (Eze 37:15-20)
    e) This gathering is certainly different than the present gathering of Israelites for they will be
    gathered into their own land (Israel) with one King (David) to be King to them. (Ezek 37:21-22, 24-
    25) David will be raised from the dead with the “Whole House of Israel” (Ezek 34:23, Jer 30:9,
    Hos 3:5) and God will complete His everlasting covenant with David.
    f) The Whole House of Israel will not defile themselves anymore, (Ezek 37:23) but will walk in God’s
    judgments and statutes and do them. (Ezek 37:24)
    g) The Whole House of Israel will dwell with all the children of Israel forever and
    again David will serve as their prince ruler. (Ezek 37:25)
    h) Finally, Israel will then live under an everlasting covenant of peace. (Ezek 37:26)

    Connecting the dots of Mr. Salus’ revelation regarding Ps 83; and Israel’s military victory over the 10 Arab states and terrorist groups aligned against Israel

    First, the whole context of Ps 83 speaks for itself. Mr. Salus discusses only verse 1-8. But the Psalmist continues his initial prayer from verse one when asking god not to keep quiet or still. Verses 9-17 he asked God (under the inspiration and direction of the Holy Spirit) how he wishes the Lord to reward this confederation against Israel. I believe these two requests are a revelation and will be answered by God regarding the situation. Two points in Israel’s history are pointed too:

    1) The bold military victory of Gideon’s army against the Midianites. (Judges Chap 7)
    2) And the bold military victory of Barak’s army via direction of the prophetess Deborah against king Jabin
    under his commander Sisera. (Judges chapter 4)

    Here are the connecting dots of those two military victories.

    1) In both cases Israel had been long oppressed and threatened by hostile nations.
    2) Their hostility included hatred and terrorism against the nation of Israel
    3) In both cases Israel’s leaders of the day received divine direction to take military action and promised
    supernatural assistance in their military quest.
    4) Both military exploits resulted in a rout of the enemies army.
    5) Both oppressive and aggressive opponents of Israel were arrogant in mocking Israel (so today are the
    Arab nations hostile and boarding Israel)
    6) Their arrogant attitude toward Israel ended with them being ashamed, confounded, and they perished.
    (None of the 10 Arab nations and terrorist associates of Ps 83 are noted in the confederation aligned
    with gog of magog and the attack against Israel as foretold in Ezek 38.
    7) Verse 15 says the two cited opponents of Israel were “persecuted”. (KJV) The Hebrew word actually means
    they were pursued and chased. This was the historical case in those two incidents. Thus, if the
    inspired prayer of Ps 83 is answered; Israel will overrun the 10 boarding Arab nations cited
    prophetically in Ps 83 (and their terrorist associates, (i.e. Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda and the
    Palestinians’) and possess their territories.

    Pastor Bill Vigue
    Meat of the Word Ministries
    Meatoftheword.org

15. Pastor Bill,

    Very good input.

    I tend to agree with your view on Ezekiel 37 and your input on the rest of Palm 83 is very good.

    So when would you think this Psalm 83 prayer is fulfilled and do you see a greatly expanded Israel after it is fulfilled?

16. I see you do see an expansion. I overlooked that in your last comment but do you think it will be as great an expansion as Bill Salus thinks and if so how do you think they hold on to so much territory and live securely before the Gog Magog war?

17. One more thing, a much more widely read post that Bill Salus has been a part of and that led to bill sending me his book and to my critique of that book is the following post.

    https://www.thepropheticyears.com/wordpress/does-the-war-of-psalms-83-come-before-the-war-of-ezekiel-chapters-38-and-39.html

    You might want to add your excellent input there.

18. From Don RE: So when would you think this Psalm 83 prayer is fulfilled and do you see a greatly expanded Israel after it is fulfilled?

    RE: I see you do see an expansion. I overlooked that in your last comment but do you think it will be as great an expansion as Bill Salus thinks and if so how do you think they hold on to so much territory and live securely before the Gog Magog war?

    I’m glad you mentioned the part about the prayer in Ps 83 Don. I think it was divinely inspired and that God wants us to know it will be fulfilled. As to the expansion? I have never considered that until reading Bill Salus’ book “Isralestine”. I think Bill has probably hit the nail on the head with enough clarity and insight that I will now favorably point it out as something to expect in the coming days.

    As to Israel holding on to so much territory and live securely? I can only speculate. Possibly someone will find new clues in the scriptures on this point.

    My suggestion is this: Like the military victories of 1967 & 1973 (and Israel’s repossession of a part of Jerusalem) for a short season the world will accept Israel’s sudden expansion because it would be the Arab nations own fault for their agression against Israel.

    Then the developments of Eze 38 would soon come into play. A new confederation (possibly under the control of Vadimir Putin as “gog”: Which I have been speaking about) will come against Israel to take their spoils. I think Dr. Fruchtenbaum has presented a notable case that the “Young Loins” (offspring of England: The USA, Canada, Austraila and New Zeeland; will merely put up a mild protest. That does seem to be the political sentiment leaders like Obama, Ron Paul etc…) Then when gog’s army advances with devesting war, as they finally reach the Mountian peeks of Israel (Jerusalem the pinicle) to finish them off, God will sovereignly destroy that Army with supernatural intervention.

19. Consider Mr. Salus’ comments on Ezek 37:10 and his thoughts about the phrase “exceedingly great army”. I noted that he did not take into account the whole context. He didn’t even consider the other elements in the single verse. First, Ezekiel prophesied, then breath came into them (the whole house of Israel) they lived and they stood on their feet. It does not say they became military soldiers nor an army trained for war.

    Regarding the Hebrew word “army” Mr. Salus makes this fair point. “Some of today’s expositors teach that Ezekiel 37:10 alludes to a “multitude” rather than an army. However, there are some important interpretive details to consider when deciphering Ezekiel 37:10. The Hebrew word Ezekiel uses in verse 10 for army is, “chayil” and it is used 12 times elsewhere by Ezekiel and over 225 times throughout the Old Testament. All of Ezekiel’s usages and many Old Testament renderings clearly depict it as either an army or riches acquired via the spoils obtained in the aftermath of a war. Nowhere else in the book of Ezekiel can it possibly be translated as a multitude. This establishes precedent that an army rather than a multitude is being described by Ezekiel.

    Regarding the two frequently Hebrew words translated for army The Complete WordStudy Dictionary gives this difference between the meaning of chayil” and the meaning of “saba. “Ch?ayil: is a noun meaning strength, wealth, army. This word has the basic idea of strength and influence. Sa?b?a?’: is a noun meaning service, servants. It may apply to military service, hard, difficult service, or divine service.”

    Considering that the end of the Armageddon Campaign is initially the result of Israel’s acceptance of Jesus as their Messiah, then Christ’s return is a majestic military victory. It particularly is a victory for the remnant of Israel. Christ, our High Priest will win this bloody affair “alone”. (Is 63:1-5) The spoils of that war will exceed all spoils of war. The benefactors are all those who are in Christ, and especially the “the whole house of Israel” which will come up out of their graves in the resurrection.

    It is my opinion that the scenario of the “exceeding great army” (chayil) fits best with the understanding that it involves “the whole house of Israel”. At the return of Christ all Israelites who had faith in the coming Messiah are raised from the dead and gathered from “the four winds, from one end of HEAVEN (not earth) to the other”. (Matt 24:31) They will return with Jesus to reign with Him on the earth during the Millennium. The “nation Israel” (the whole house of Israel – not a military army of soldiers) finally enters into the fullness of God’s promises to them. In the Millennium Israel will be great in strength and influence during that Reign under their resurrected King David. There will be no need for a military defense.

20. Synedoche is used several times in Scripture, especially in Prophecy. I don’t see why it cannot have been used by a prophet such as Ezekiel.
    Chayil in Ezek 37:10 is translated by Bible scholars as army–even in the latest Complete Jewish Bible, translated by H. David Stern, a Messianic Jew. I think someone brought up studying the language from childhood is likely to have a fair understanding of Hebrew.
    And, in verse 11, we are told that this army is “the whole house of Israel.”
    Why can’t the whole house of Israel be Synedoche for what we have just been told is an army, as it is a very powerful army?
    We know, I should think, that every single Jewish Israeli cannot be a soldier. The JDF, however, is fighting for–so in a sense speaking for–all Israelis whether or not they want that.
    Not every Israeli, nor Jew for that matter, is a Zionist (though I say more fool those who are not).
    We know what’s going to happen AFTER Armageddon. The Bible tells us so. And we know that at Armageddon it is the Lord Jesus Christ Who will deal with Israel’s enemies. And He is not just returning to this earth with Jews but with ALL His saints and angels.
    I don’t doubt for a second that it will be a victory FOR Israel but it will not be a victory BY them but by Christ accompanied by his saints and angels.
    It seems to be that this great army, fighting and “speaking” for Israel–therefore acting as them–will be doing a lot of backside kicking before Christ returns. They have done plenty of it as it is for the whole world to see.
    Yes there will be no need for a military defence in the millenium but there certainly is a need for one now.
    We only need to read Obadiah and see there who Israel’s implacable enemies are. These vicious people have to be utterly extirpated and that has not happened yet. We can see that because they are still here and they are NAMED (Edom). The people to extirpate them are also named ([erse 18]–Viz., Judah and Joseph (not Jesus). And that wasn’t possible till recent times.

21. Don,

    Having again read your critique it is again always apparent when reading on the subject that we are like those intrepreting the weather. How often do we get a 70% chance of something only to end up with 0%. It is just a continous reminder that although we are to be wise and know the times we are living in we cannot predict with accuracy the time our Lord has established.
    I enjoyed reading Bill’s book and I have enjoyed reading Joel Rosenberg’s book as well as others and sites like yours. I think it helps to get a big picture view. I do as well believe that these men put forth a very plausible view and I can see Israel with the assistance of other nations and via that obtain a “peace” from the radical Islamic elements. One might think God could also enable Israel to defeat all their enemies as He helped them in the OT which is plausible. Not until Ez 38-39 do we see God directly fighting Israels battle.

    One thing that just keeps bringing me back to the plausiblity of Israel fighting Ps 83 on their own or mostly on their own is when i look at Isaiah 19 where the Egyptians pretty much faint away.

    Isaiah 19:16-17 NASB 16 In that day the Egyptians will become like women, and they will tremble and be in dread because of the waving of the hand of the LORD of hosts, which He is going to wave over them. 17 And the land of Judah will become a terror to Egypt; everyone to whom it is mentioned will be in dread of it, because of the purpose of the LORD of hosts which He is purposing against them.

    At this point I have been watching Egypt as to me they possibly could be a precursor to Ps 83 as this nation quite possibly is exchanging a bad leader for the prophesied “cruel master” and ending up being invaded by Israel.

    I would be very intersted to hear your thoughts on this as I don’t have alot of local people who enjoy discussing the events of the world and end times.

    Thanks.

    David

22. David,

    I really do not have a position on Isaiah 19. Some seems to have been fulfilled in ancient times and some might be fulfilled in or near the tribulation period.

    I do not think what is happening in Egypt now is any fulfillment of Isa 19:16-17 nor a precursor to Psalm 83. It is possible that the Arab Spring will result in Psalm 83 but we do not know how it will all shake out and there very well could be a Shiite Sunni war before the fulfillment of Psalm 83.

    I personally think that some people are finding things in OT passages that simply have nothing to do with present current events.

23. It’s always sensible to be cautious, Don, when things aren’t cut and dry.
    It’s sometimes difficult to know what certain things are. At least, on that point, I speak for myself.
    In verse 18, of Isaian 19. it says that the Egyptians shall speak the language of Canaan. That, to me, is likely to mean the language of the land of Canaan, not the Canaanite Language.
    The Egyptians never spoke the language of Canaan in the first place and the Canaanite language is long since dead and gone. Hebrew is now a living language.
    As the Egyptians have never yet spoken Hebrew, my personal take is that it is yet to happen.
    The Egyptians have never had an altar to Yahweh. So is it not surely true that the verses following verse 18 all have to do with the millenium?
    Israel, Egypt and Assyria living together in the land is never prophesied for this side of Armageddon. That has to be in the millenium.
    I can see why verses 1-13 can be seen to have happened in ancient times. But Egypt, has been pretty much in the same position & condition it has been since those times!
    I would put verses 15 to 18 to be in the very near future and prior to Armageddon. That’s because Judah, to my knowledge, has never been a terror to Egypt.
    It isn’t likely to be just prior to Armageddon, either, because at the start of the Great Tribulation, Israel will accept a false peace, on signing their pact with anti-Christ.
    Then, after three and a half years, anti-Christ will break that peace and turn against Israel, when she comes into the time of Jacob’s Trouble.
    In that time, she will not be in the position to become a terror to Egypt–nor, for that matter, to anyone else.
    And when the whole nation of Israel, and the Jewish people at large see Christ returning in his Glory, they will recognize Him as their Messiah. So that cannot ve the time, either, when Israel will be a terror unto Egypt.
    I wonder if you have any thoughts on that, Don.

24. Martin,

    your view of Isa 19 15-18 may be all correct or it may not. I have already said that some of the prophecy may be near the end times or in the last seven years. That does not mean that what we see going on in Egypt today means that the fulfillment is now going to be immediate. Also, we really do not even know that Egypt is even mentioned in Psalm 83.

25. Right. Thanks, Don. I thought you implied that it was about the time of Armageddon.
    I agree that Egypt may not be mentioned in Psalm 83 and that what’s going on there today means the fulfillment is immediate. Thanks.

26. Agreed, we just will not really know until it actually happens.

    I guess the only thing I have come across is the view (Bill Salnus) that the Hagarites have ties to the Egyptian nation and Eygpt isn’t really mentioned in Ex 38 either.
    I guess this is how I have come to reason it even though it’s not a perfect fit. I have also being reading your blog on https://www.thepropheticyears.com/wordpress/does-the-war-of-psalms-83-come-before-the-war-of-ezekiel-chapters-38-and-39.html

    Because of the views that Ps 83 and Ez 38 are pre-trib events (I agree) we can see them plausbily happening in the near future. I think Epypt fits now and it has very interesting and increaing potential in the light of recent events. I think this is a good read. http://www.prophecydepot.net/2011/egypt-2012-%e2%80%93-dissatisfaction-plagues-the-land/

    Anyways, with the ending of Isaiah 19 we see that Eygpt comes under attack from Judah and 5 cities fall and the Hebew language is spoken and a altar of the Lord is set up. Eyptians and Assyrians now come together to worship God in Israel. This attack does make it is possible to connect Isaiah 19 and even Isaiah 17 with the same time frame as Ps 83.

    I recognize that the Egptians and Assyrians have now a spiritual awakening and they are coming together to worship God in Israel via a highway.
    I do not see at that within the Ps 83 events that Israel will be a worshiping nation as a whole so this is interesting. However, I believe such a war and victory will bring more Jews to connect with their past and thus increase a desire to turn to God of Abraham but not necessarily to Jesus although I pray many will.
    Now I can see 100% with the war of Ez 38 that Israel will as a nation turn to God as God Himself rains fire and judgement upon Isreal’s enemies and at this point the ending of Isaiah 19 seems more plausible, however, Isaiah says that Judah is the object of terror to the Egyptians not the Lord. So in that light it seems out of place to put Isaiah 19 along side of the events of Ez 38 – 39.
    Even without direct intervention from God it is obvious that it is God who turns Israel’s enemies fearful. As well during these times the Lord will make himself known in a way that will bring these nations into a unified state which again speaks to Israel’s enlarged boards and brings a freedome to worship and travel.

    How long this time of peace will last is unknown, but it is after this that I can see Ez 38-39 coming to pass and the world will be changed beyond belief. From here to me it also makes sense why Egypt is not mentioned but it’s neighboring countries are as Egypt could possibly now be a base for attacks against the counties of Northern Africa even thought they’ll not get the chance. Again I have taken this view from Bill Salnus.
    Cush = Sudan, Ethiopia, and Possibly Eritrea
    Put = Libya, Algeria, and Tunisa

    I enjoy reading and being challenged to think on these matters gentlemen and I appreciate your thoughts.

27. David Little,

    I agree that Hagarites of Psalm 83 have ancient ties to Hagar of Egypt but they served King David East of Israel long after Hagar, so it is a stretch to identify Egypt as part of the Arab Confederacy in Psalm 83 because they mentioned the Hagarites.

    If I am reading you correct, and that is difficult, since you said the Egyptians and Assyrians are “now” having a spiritual awakening and that obviously is not the case. So I believe you were saying “now” after the Psalm 83 event they will have a spiritual awakening. They indeed might realize that there is a God looking over Israel after that event and that could account for the peace, but if that is the way it will turn out then I am sure Israel will also be aware of that. (Scripture does not tells us.)

    I do not see the highway mentioned until the millennium.

28. Hi Martin,

    It is well known today that Israel has, by the grace of God and America’s help, a powerful military option, both offensively as well as they sincerely claim is a defensive army. Having read “Isralestine” it seem plausable that the conflict and prayer request noted in Ps 83 could result in Israel defeating the cited Arab’s countries in that Psalm. (Personally, I want “Israel present” and their allies to respond boldly to it’s Arab bullies with a strong military response).

    Regarding the often mentioned “exceeding great army” noted in Eze 37:10, I do not think it or every reference of an Army is a reference to a militant army. There are armies mentioned in scripture that were not at all Militant. For instance, when God supernaturally and sovereignly (that means with His own might) delivered the oppressed Israelites from Egyptian bondage, God called them His army and they were not at all a militant force.

    Exo 6:26 These are that Aaron and Moses, to whom the LORD said, Bring out the children of Israel from the land of Egypt according to their armies.

    Exo 12:51 And it came to pass the selfsame day, that the LORD did bring the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their armies.

    While they were called “armies”; the Jewish slaves in Egypt were not organized or trained to fight for their deliverance. This was a referral denoting their numbers, and the orderly fashion in which they were ready to march out of Egypt. They left Egypt in a formidable manner, with composure and confidence because of the extrodinary way God delivered them. By God’s grace they left un strength (not one was sick or feeble) and they left with God’s intent that they were to be of great influence to the gentile nations.

    The phrase, “exceedingly great army” cited in Eze 37:10 does not fit the scenaro of a militant army. I agree with Don that some “people are finding things in OT passages that simply have nothing to do with present current events.” Trying to use the army of Eze 37:10 to fit military action associated with a victorious battle of Israel against it’s Arab enemies noted in Ps 83 is unnecessary but worse. It pains me because everytime a chapter, text, verse, phrase, or word of the inspired scriptures is misplaced, misused or leads away from it’s intended meaning, hinders elements of God’s truths of other intent from being revealed.

29. Don, Yes I was referring to now as in post Ps 83 and especially Post Ez 38-39.

    Thanks

30. David Little,

    I would have to disagree with your comment “we just will not really know until it actually happens.” Why do we bother to study Bible prophecy if we did not think we could know? Why would God have inspired His prophets to speak them out if God didn’t want them to be revealed to us geforehand? (Deut 29:29)

    In every generation there is a remenant who through prayer and study are in the know of specific facts and details before they happen. For instance, in Luke chapter two at the circumcision of the Lord Jesus, there were two people God honors by mentioning them. He honored them for being in the know. Simeon we are told was a just and devout man “waiting for the consolation of Israel”. Because of his dilligent searching (Heb 11:6) God revealed to him that he would not die until he saw with his eyes the Lord’s Christ.

    Then there was the elderly but devoted women Anna, who was ever in the temple praying. She too recognized the Lord’s Christ before he ever entered into His ministry.

    My point is this: May we never give into the philosophy of “fatalism”. Much of the church has. Oh we don’t call in fatalism, but instead it is regarded as “Faith” among many today. Actually “blind faith”, a faith that has little foundation of what God will do (we can never know what God will do – REALLY?) or what God is doing. It’s alarming that so many blood bought Christians interpret God’s will by what happens or as they would say “God allwed it so it must be His will”.

    Well that’s not the faith that was once handed down to the saints! I like the Book of Acts because it shows us the early followers of Christ sought God’s will for detailed assignments and knew and understood God’s will in general. How can anyone do God’s will if they don’t first know it? And how will they know it if they think they can’t?

    David. I’m saying this only to make a point. It really isn’t directed at you.

31. Pastor Bill,

    You may have been just been venting but you also need to take what David Little said in context. He was clearly answering my position that we do not know if Egypt is referred to in the Psalm 83 event.

    Taking a position that God might not tell us every detail of the future is also a valid position. There are many things of the past that God has not explained to us in the scriptures.

    The future prophecies about what will happen around Israel are primarily given for Israel and secondary given for those Gentiles that will live through these events and thirdly so that when these things do happen people can read the scriptures and know that the scriptures were from God.

    Did God really give prophecy about the last days so that the Church should know every detail of the future? Some think so and then they speculate about obscure things that often leads people into error. Harold Camping would be a prime example.

    Christians can make the study of Bible prophecy a great waste of time if they get into endless speculations and then try to shoehorn their speculations into current events, for example, like the Muslim Antichrist pushers are doing.

    I hope I am not sounding like Rick Warren but it is amazing what Christians are wasting their time studying these days. They think they know every detail about future Bible prophecy because they read someone’s book, yet have not even read through the Bible once in their lives and do nothing to advance the great commission.

    I am not directing this at you specifically. Maybe I am venting as well. I have seen this speculation about obscure details for four decades now and the result of it generally has not been good. In fact, it has been very destructive to the clear teachings of Bible prophecy and Premillennial Theology.

32. Hi Don, yeah I was venting but not at David. I hear your point too. But I do believe every word God breathed through each prophet, teacher, or spokesman that is today defined as scripture was meant for everyone who believes God and not only for Israel. Yes, as events do come to pass it can serve as a blessing to know what God said did come to pass.

    Deut 29:29 states; The secret things belong unto the Lord, but those things that are revealed belong unto us and to our children forever so that we can do all the Law”.

    There is no doubt in my mind that there are many things that are held by God in secret from us. Thank God! But those things that are revealed unto us is the scriptures. Now, none of us can claim we know or will know all that the scriptures say and reveal to us while on this side of glory. But it is there for us to search out. That is my point of concern. If we do not approach God and His Word as one we can come to know and understand we will shorter than necessary. I want to be on the side of encouraging every believer to study and strive to rightly divide the Word as much as is humanly possible.

    David, I hope you did not mistake my comment as ill willed. I love all of my brothers and sister who are active in sites like this because your on the side of seeking God and His Word. Every little bit helps each other. Don, bless you too.

33. Pastor Bill,

    There is a difference between knowing what God said and endless speculations on points of scripture where there are almost as many opinions as there are people obsessing over them.

    What will the speculation that there is prophecy yet to be fulfilled for Egypt before some Psalm 83 fulfillment build on the spiritual house of God? We really do not even know for sure that Psalm 83 is pre-trib and then putting verses of prophecy about the Burden of Egypt before Psalm 83 could just be building speculation upon speculation.

    Deut 29 was talking to Israel under the Old Covenant. We do not do all the law; we have faith in the one that did. And using that 29:29 verse to support some view that we need to figure out the details of end time Bible prophecy is not the way it should be applied. Encouraging people to rightly divide the word of God is good but the major emphasis should not be on speculations on Bible prophecy

    I think there needs to be balance in Christians. On the one hand I see no interest in Bible prophecy at all, and on the other hand I see undue obsession over details that have nothing to do with the Church anyway.

    If you got the emails I get you would realize that Christianity to some people is limited to figuring out the future. The Bible used without understanding and correct discernment can be just another fortune telling device. People buy into Bible codes speculations and books like “Hidden Prophecy in the Psalms” or distances from Jerusalem theories or Camping or Horn’s stuff or the TV prophet stuff because they are obsessed with knowing the future. I don’t think Paul would be encouraging this.

34. Hi Don,

    High fives to your points about “endless speculations”, “obsessing opinions”, date setting, etc… I don’t know anything about Horn’s stuff but H. Camping’s theories and his other misinterpretations are usually off the wall. I don’t read anything of his unless I want to teach how un-rational his view is. That requires a review.

    As to our not keeping the Law (of Moses) and having faith in the one that did, well that’s so well known and understanding by us today that some take it to the extreme. Think about it from the other side. The church in general today is so filled with the idea of freedom from the Law that some claim they are at liberty to violate it at will just to prove how free we are.

    As for me, I have no problem setting before myself and everyone else (including government buildings) the Ten Commandments. They didn’t save me, but they do serve to keep me in remembrance that God and His “Law is holy and His commandments are (still) Holy Just and Good”. I didn’t come to that conclusion myself. The Apostle Paul said it by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. (Rom 7:12)

    Regarding Deut 29:29, I differ slightly with your point of view. Yes, to “rightly divide the Word of truth” does require knowing who a statement was addressed to. Yes, Deut 29:29 is part of the OT Law to Israel. And yes, I noticed it says that things were revealed TO THEM so THEY “may do all the Words of the Law”. We know today they did not. Why? Is it merely because they couldn’t? Among other things Paul explained that they followed the letter of the Law instead of the spirit of the Law. (Rom 7:6, 1 Cor 2:10-14)

    Under the New Covenant we should follow the spirit of the Law. It is the spirit of the Law, including Deut 29:29’s statements, which still applies to all believers today. I appreciate the principle that tells me God wants US all to learn from what He reveals.

    If spirit of the OT Law did not apply to a believer today, how can we take claim to the New Covenant? I’m shocked that in America so many think the New Covenant is a Gentile Covenant. Of course most of your readers here know it is not. We today live in Christ through s New Covenant that was given to Israel.

    Jer 31:33 “But this shall be the covenant that I will make WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.” (see also the NT explanation for Christians – Heb 8:6-13)

35. Don,

    After I sent my recent reply I was reminded of this: A member of our fellowship today testified the other day that a church they once attended taught the the NT Book of Hebrews did not apply to Gentile Christians, therefore they do not study it. Trust me when I say I’ve had my share of hearing from a lot of nutty stuff too.

36. Hi Bill, thaks for the comments. They are points well worth pondering. They are also good points that you and Don make especially about fruitcakes on either sides of the extremes.
    As to you, Don, I do not think anyone will ever accuse you of sounding like Rick Warren!

37. Pastor Bill,

    This post is not about Christians keeping the Law. I just thought it rather strange that you needed to use a verse about the law as an argument to justify obsession over obscure Bible prophecy passages. I can find a verse in the Bible to support just about anything if I misapply it.

38. Hi Don,

    I hope my explanation about Deut 29:29 and “spirit of the Law” clarifies why I cited it. I have no desire to encourage people to run rabbit trails on speculations and obsessive opinions. Yet on the other hand I agree with Paul that the Holy scriptures and the Holy Spirit is revealing the deep things of God so we might know and spiritually discern ‘”the things that are freely given to us of God”.

    Regarding the events surrounding the Second Coming (including possibly Ps 83 & Eze 38) I do believe there is much God has revealed to us in the scriptures. In the same way God provided a volume of details about the Lord’s first Coming, He has provided details that are meant to confirm the development of things as we draw nearer to His Second Coming.

    For instance, in His 1st coming, God detailed things like His Virgin Birth, Birthplace, childhood trip to Egypt, the slaughter of baby boys in Rhema and “Rachel weeping because they were not”… His residence in Nazareth, His brutal crucifixion of Is 53, the Judas’ sop betrayal, the vinegar and hyssop for His thirst … etc…. My point is that these things caused many people living at the time to be in the know. People who were seeking diligently the scriptures at that time, they knew many of these things were to happen and as they happened it confirmed the event was happening.

    So I like Deut 29:29 and I appreciate emphasis on the part; “those things that are revealed belong unto us” and to the children forever. There are other points of confirmation from the prophets reporting that we (the sincere, prayerful, spiritually minded seeker) would understand more and more the signs of the times as the events draws near.

    The following references all refer to the End Time Events of the Second Coming:

    Jer 23:19-20 “Behold, a whirlwind of the LORD is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked. The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: IN THE LATTER DAYS YE SHALL CONSIDER (understand) IT PERFECTLY.” (see also Jer 30:23-24)

    Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, EVEN TO THE TIME OF THE END: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

    Dan 12:8-9 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed TILL THE TIME OF THE END.

    Then I like Rev 1:1 as much as any.

    The Revelation of Jesus Christ, WHICH GOD GAVE unto him, TO SHOW HIS SERVANTS things which must shortly come to pass;…

    It is the servants of the Lord who will be in the know, not the intellectuals, speculators and obsessive opinionator. (Did I just create a new word? 😉 )

39. I personally think Bill Salus is fairly spot on. Though I believe the facts should always dictate the paradigm, Scripturally or otherwise.
    There are always good points come up in the comments on this part of the blog (as indeed on other parts of it).
    I do take on what’s being said though and sometimes have to have a good rethink.
    I think you, Pastor Bill, and you, Don, make good points. Sometimes, though, I think you both say the same things in different ways. But the good thing is that we are all learning.
    And, as you say, Bill, It is the servants of the Lord who will be in the know. From what I’m noticing in world trends the intellectuals, speculators and obsessive opinionators are often very much wrong.
    (Why shouldn’t you create new words, Bill? Shakespeare and James Joyce did it without asking anyone’s permission!)

40. Pastor Bill,

    I think I have been patient enough with you. Read my commenting policy and then get your comments on the post topic. You really are not impressing me with your straw man arguments and rationalizations from scriptures about why you think finding obscure and subjective details about Eschatology is so important for the Church. What especially irks me is your ripping verses out of the Bible to prove that point when they do not. I could waste my life arguing with you on this issue but I am not going to do that.

    Read the post. If you have anything more to say on that fine, otherwise it is very likely not going to get posted.

41. Don,

    Yes thanks for clarifing my context and I understand that “text” is simply not the best form of communication. I didnt’ take anything personal 🙂 I believe that sometimes we forget that it is hindsight that can give us this perhaps false sense of “knowing” more than we think we know. In truth we are making alot of assumptions when we try to push the interpretation of prophecy too far. If the birth of the Messiah was so obvious why did the nation of Israel miss it? They were focused on an earthly kingdom and messiah. How many mis-interpreted scripture when the nation of Irsael didn’t exist and how many still hang on to a replacement theology.
    Also we can relfect on the many changes in technology that have changed our perspective on how would such things be possible like the mark of the beast. We do not know all the specifics nor do I believe God expects us to know the specifics. Just like the weather things change and we cannot afford to go all in on a view regarding prophecy because like the weather something will happen that is not written down and we run the risk of backing ourselves in to just as much of a corner as someone who predicts dates. God will get no glory if we make ourselves fools.
    We are in the know because we look at this world from a perspective that God is in control and His word is true. We have faith these things will happen as He has said, however, I do not believe that He will give us “extra beyond Biblical” information and details. I think we need to be very careful of that lest we be led astray and take others with us. For this we would be judged most harshly as teachers we bear a greater responsibility.
    I enjoy reading about prophecy, but our main focus and goal is spiritual maturity. Understanding my gifts and using them as a Shepard and Teacher is what excites me to help others learn and understand God’s Word so that they too can become more mature and solid in their faith. For without becoming strong in our faith to reach out to those who will become fearful as the world changes what is the point of knowing the future. Not only that but we have believers who are falling asleep at the wheel and churches decaying. Being able to understand the coming events is not the prize (Heb 12:1). The goal was always to recognize that our focus and energy is in becoming more Christ-like and how much we need to depend and rely on Him especially as we see ourselves running out of time and there is still much, much work to be done!!

    God Bless

42. That said I’m curious as to what you all think regarding the who’s who for the 10 nation confederacy against Israel as there seems to be some debate on this.
    Looking at some of the headlines there is some definiate tension building in the ME. Egypt is moving another step closer to a very anti-Israel nation and I am watching to see how this affects the nation and their economy.

    So do you agree with Bill Salnus’s view?

    Psalm 83 Coalition:
    Tents of Edom = [decedents of Esau] Palestinian Refugees and Southern Jordanians
    Ishmaelites = Saudi Arabians
    Moab = Palestinian Refugees and Central Jordanians
    Hagrites = Egyptians
    Gebal = Northern Lebanese
    Ammon = Palestinian Refugees and Northern Jordanians
    Amalek = Arabs South of Israel
    Philista = Palestinian Refugees and Hamas of Gaza Strip
    Inhabitants of Tyre = Hezbollah and Southern Lebanese
    Assyria = Syrians and perhaps Northern Iraqis included
    Children of Lot = Moab and Ammon

    😉

43. Hey David,

    RE: Psalm 83 Coalition:

    I have the same states and groups you posted but differently stated a bit.

    Tents of Edom = [decedents of Esau] Palestinian Refugees, & Terrorist cell groups in that region like
    Al-Quida, Hamas.
    Ishmaelites = Saudi Arabians and other rogue Arab groups
    Moab = Central Jordanians
    Gebal = Lebanon
    Ammon = Northern Jordanians
    Amalek = Arabs from the Sini Peninsula South of Israel
    Philista = Palestinian Refugees and Hamas of Gaza Strip
    Inhabitants of Tyre = Lebanon & terrorist cells like as you cited Hezbollah
    Assyria = Syrians and perhaps Northern Iraqis included
    Children of Lot = Your suggestion of Moab and Ammon might be right based on the settlement factor, but since those two states are already cited I think the reference to children, or the offspring of Lot might be a hint to some rogue individuals in the region, of a perverted nature. Remember, the only children Lot had after the destruction of Sodom & Gom… were his two daughter -in laws. They got him drunk, committed incest and bore him children. If God knows every hair on our head he knows every individual perversion of nature. Mentioning them might be His way of saying I know/ knew everything. Onecommentary I can remember off the top of my head who alludes to this is Matthew Henry.

    Hagrites = The Egyptians is the common consideration and so i would side with that since there is no other hints but Egypt. But there is some who call that into question.

    As to Salus’ view? I think he is in error about the Eze 37:10 reference to the ” exceeding, great army” being israel’s military. And I am not convinced with his sense that Israel would repossess, in such a battle, ALL the land God has promised to Israel. I don’t see that happening until the Millennium.

44. David Little,

    Bill Salus has done far more research on this issue than I have. The Hagrites lived East of Jordan and served King David so I really cannot say that the hagrites is talking about the nation of Egypt. I do not rule it out either, since Hagar was an Egyptian.

45. Thanks Gentelmen, as I’m sure we can all agree it is just our best attemps at following the bread crumbs and probably Bill Salnus’s guess is closer than most as he has done a lot of research.
    With Ez 37:10 I always took it in the context that Israel (the nation) as a whole has always been a great army, a light to the nations, a choosen people, etc. So to me it is an aspect of the character of the nation itself. They have always been a nation of conflict. As many of us take this as a prophecy of their national rebirth we know that since their re-establishment in 1948 they have had to continually fight for there existence. In this light I think I can accept this statement.
    As far as land possession I can see that due to events of the prophecy of Ps 83 that Israel will indeed potentially expand their borders which could place them in control of much of the Oil / gas fields and who knows what else. The land does continue to respond to the nation’s presence. Which would naturally fuel the jealousy of nations like Russia / Turkey etc and bring about the Ex 38-39 War which God fights to show the world Israel is still His choosen people. This of course leads to an entirely new geo-political environment that would be very difficult to guess at.
    I am of the opinion that Ez 40 is a jump into the future millenium but then again it may not be as Israel will obviously remember the God of Abraham and they may take this new found freedom under the protection of God to fully establish their control on the land and divide up the land as in scripture and to establish their temple. The world in fear will want to establish a treaty with this super power and this is where the 7 yrs may unfold.
    Again that said it is just a theory of mine and with all theorys open to challenge and debate. Overall though I think Bill’s big picture view is really good and as current events progress we cannot deny we are very close to a showdown.

46. Hey David,

    It’s funny, I always took Ez 37 including verse ten to be in the context of this present day regathering of Israel, until I read “Isralestine”. It caused me to look more carefully at the context. There are so many references made by the Prophets about this regathering that I took it for granted it was just another one. But once I read the whole context CAREFULLY I stopped taking it for granted. The phrases such as “The whole house of Israel”, “Under one Shepherd”, “life entered into them”, and of course the reference of David being alive again and being a King and prince unto them.

    As to the Land expansion and Israel possibly taking over gas and oil fields? I think it’s interesting and plausable, not not readily confirmable. Certainly Ps 83 does not imply anything of the sort.

    I do agree that such a circumstance would fit, as you and “Isralestine” says, a possilbe reason for Russia, Turkey and the other members of the confederation cited in Exe 38 to come “take a spoil”.

47. No, but has I have stated it is hard to determine the true how’s and why’s that will motivate or precipiate the events of PS 83 and Ez 38 – 39. We can just be assured that it will happend and we need to encourage and grow believers to become stronger and more mature in the faith!

    😀

48. I appreciate and have found the book “Israltine” a good resource for some good commentary, and inciteful study on many prophetic councils of God. I am excited to look into it’s arguments more carefully as time allows. I do have some initial critiques that I have addressed publically. Some of the critique will be aired on our radio program this coming week. If you live in the Ohio, Pennsylvania, Georgia, Arz and Northern FL area and would like to listen to the program contact us directly at my email address.

    If you are not in those areas you can listen in to our same local radio broadcast by going to our web site at: meatoftheword.org. This allows you to listen in via the computer. There is an icon on the opening page for the live radio broadcast. It is aired Monday through Friday at 8:45 am and at 6:15 PM and can be heard world wide by going to our web site and clicking on the radio icon button on our opening page. If you have any difficulty contact us.

49. (My website doesn’t deal with my Christian writings–so far.)
    Though Psalm 83 doesn’t actually say that Israel will take over the Arab lands, I think they most likely will through other biblical implications. But that, in my view, can’t happen till the Psalm 83 confederation is defeated.
    I think the laughably called “Arab Spring” is showing how the Arabs are being brought low enough for Israel to finish them off easily.
    I personally go along with most of Bill Salus’ conclusions. I am trying not to be subjective as it could be that because I want it to happen I want to believe it!
    But it’s back to this thing about Israel being in unwalled places. They’re not in that secure position now. And I don’t think this would mean after Christ’s return.
    Israel won’t need a great Army then. They won’t need any army! And, as you say, why else would Russia and Turkey want to take spoils?
    Of course we know that Russia is entrenched in anti-Semitism. They were under the Communists and the were under the tsars and for hundreds of years. Even the great Solzhenitsyn who claimed to be a Christian was not adverse to making anti-Semitic statements and neither was Dostoevsky (another Christian). So the Russians would attack Israel merely out of their hatred for Jews.
    I don’t think Turkey’s so bad. They’ve actually been on friendly terms with Israel until this growth of Islamic fundamentalism there. (I’ve personally met Turks who prefer Israel and the Jews to Arabs.)
    With Cameron’s and Clegg’s interference in Israeli afairs two days ago, and trying to push for concessions to the so-called Palestinians, I can see the Israelis concluding that it’s time they hit back soon.
    God curses those who curse Israel [Gen 12:3; 27:29], so I’m fairly convinced that there will be hell to pay and fairly soon.

50. Watching closely the Middle East News brought me into an interest of reading the Book “Isralestine”. Before reading it and the interesting commentary on Psalm 83 this is what I believed:

    1) The next major sign of the times we are living in was a military attack by “gog of magog” and his confederation against Israel which would result in a devastation battle, but also a supernatural intervention of God to protect the nation in part.

    2) I was more convinced of this coming event when the Obama administration won the election. I felt then, as I do now, that his appeasement policies would embolden Israel’s enemies and ours. I still believe the reference to the “young lions” in Eze 38 refers to the nations that are the offspring to England Sovereignty: The USA, Canada, Australia, & New Zealand.

    3) I also feared that Israel would rebel against Obama’s appeasement sentiment and might possibly attack Iran’s nuclear facilities and thus incite such world rage against Israel that Putin, assumable the next dictator of Russia and that region, would find nothing more than mild resistance as they attacked Israel “for the spoils”.

    Today, with the news reports I’m reading, I still think it is possible that Israel will go it alone. But instead of Russia leading the way the confederation noted in Psalm 83 (the boarding Arab nations and terrorist groups) could be first to retaliate. If they were defeated as Salus suggests, then it would set the stage for Eze 38 just the same.

    If you are interested in following local news in the Middle East I suggest one of the best news sites I come across is: Debka Files. Try: Debka.com to find it on the internet.

51. Pastor Bill,

    Keep in mind that there has to be some time between the destruction of the inner circle nations and the Ezekiel 38 Gog war where Israel is living in security with no one to make them afraid. Russia has recently decimated their cold war era outdated army but Putin has put in place plans to create a modern first rate army. However, even he says that will take 10 to 15 years and his proposed new Eurasian Union is going to take some time to put together. It is true that Russia has first rate nuclear capabilities but it is going to take ground forces and strong alliances to fulfill Ezekiel 38 and 39.

    Debka files has some good information but I have not found the sources and their conclusions in their reports to be particularly reliable.

52. Is it true that Russia will not be nuking Israel. As you rightly state, Don, it is going to take ground forces to fulfill Ezekiel 38 & 39.
    Nor will any other nation be nuking Israel, judging by the fact that at Amageddon, a great confederation of the world’s armies will be coming against Israel. So it looks as if they will still be in one piece then.
    However, this latest nonsense with the British Cameron-Clegg “alliance” (fiasco, more like) dictating to Israel may be a further reminder to the latter that they’d better strike soon. And, as I said earlier, judging by the state of chaos the Arabs are in, this would be as good a time as any for Israel to strike.
    Though Putin claims it his new “Union” will take 10 to 15 years, that could be subterfuge. Like Hitler and all other dictators, he is surely a man that says one thing and does another–especially when he sees weakness in his chosen enemies. He will see prevarication as weakness.
    Putin proposes but God disposes!
    I haven’t heard of Debka so thanks for the mention, Pastor Bill. Thanks for your comments on Debka too, Don. I always find you very objective. So I will check them out and be as obective as my ability to do so allows.

53. Martin,

    An Israel or US strike at Iran now probably has nothing to do with the Ezekiel 38 39 war other than it probably will force Iran into a military alliance with Russia so it don’t happen again.

    Actually, Putin indicated it would take 10 or 15 years for them to build a modern conventional army – and it will. You cannot build a modern army overnight. I believe the Eurasian union is due to start in 2014. Russia already has an agreement with two or three other states to form that union but that is just the start of it. Putin pretty much wants the whole former Soviet Union area again but that will take time. The Eastern states of Europe will have to become disillusioned with Western Europe. I suspect the collapse of the western economy, social unrest and the need for energy will be the reason why nations will align with the East.

    A new Soviet Union of states only makes sense since many of these nations were not in the old Roman Empire and will not be in the revived Roman version either. In ten years or so we may be back to the 60’s again and America could be pretty much out of the picture the way we are going.

54. Don,
    I have been readng for some time that what Christians once saw as the 10-nation European superstate coming out of the EU, is now being proposed as a 10-area group of the world’s nations.
    Each group would be a cluster of nations. For example, the present EU will be one of those clusters.
    That would mean the the old Soviet Union, or part of it, would be another one of those clusters of nations.
    Obviously, though, it’s head would be centred in Rome or represented by a centralized Rome. Judging by the 10 clusters (toes) on either of the Daniel 2:31-33 feet, they are at the bottom of the two legs of the split Roman empire. So that would show that, although a world government, it has come out of Rome.
    Would any of that mak sense to you?

55. Martin,

    That theory has been around for a long time. Frankly, nobody knows.
    It could be 10 nations or ten zones within the revised Roman Empire or 10 world zones. Both EU zones and world zones have already been proposed by the powers that be. The ten proposed EU zones (if it is still called the EU at that time) might become the working pilot project for a world government with ten zones.

    I tend to think that there will be 10 zones in the revived Roman Empire but after Satan is cast out of heaven and the Harlot that rides the Beast into power is persecuted, the headquarters moves to Babylon Iraq and it goes worldwide.

56. Thanks. Much appreciated.

Comments are closed.