Beware of getting snared by legalistic churches that love to put heavy burdens on your soul.

On April 13, 2009 · 27 Comments

I received this email today and thought I would ask permission from this woman to post it on my Blog because so many Christians today are trapped in similar churches and have similar struggles.

I do not know how many Catholics fall away from the Catholic faith only to end up in churches that establish their own “self appointed anointed priesthood”. They then preach that their church has the only doctrine that brings salvation and all others that do not interpret certain passages their narrow minded way are not even Christians. Many people escape the bondage of Catholic legalism but then they put themselves under total control of  this self anointed appointed priesthood of control freaks.

If you think keeping the rules of your church brings you salvation you have not yet heard the Gospel of salvation. Also, if you believe you are now enlightened and above sin you probably just opened the door for Satan to sift you like wheat. If you really believe salvation depends on your own performance I can assure you that your performance will fall short. Jesus said to take my yoke upon you for my burden is light. The Lord’s burden is light because Jesus is carrying all of your load.

This lady found out the truth but not before she had to attend the school of hard knocks. Unfortunately some never learn and they keep themselves and everyone around them in legalistic bondage. This post and this woman’s email is presented for those who are bound in legalism with the hope that a few will have ears to hear and will depart from this bondage.

After you read this email please take a minute and Pray for Ruby and her son Gabriel.

If you are in a controlling church like this please read my article on legalism

Hi Don,  name is Ruby. I will start first of all by giving our Lord Jesus Christ all the honor and glory because he is God and worthy to be praised. I thank God for you, and the (thepropheticyears.com) website  that you have created. I thank God he has

appointed you to be a watchman. Don, I stumbled across you’re website almost a year ago I was surfing the Internet was curious about the end times something I saw on the History channel on what I think might of been about the Mayan calendar which I don’t agree with I do believe it is paganism.  Don, I want you to know first of all that I don’t know why I feel compelled to write to you.  Maybe it’s gratitude for all the information you put forth on the website all of that research and work that you have done to help others like myself.  Don, I

believe you’re reward is in heaven.  I want to write to you about my life experience as a Christian. I know you are a busy man of God, and probably have better things to do but I pray you read this message.

Don, as a child I was raised a Catholic I remember going to Catechism on Sundays. Then in my early teens I married, but in order to get married through the Catholic Church I had to make my First Holy Communion and I did and had a Church wedding.  I was never a devout Catholic I believed in God, but did not know God as my personal Lord and Savour.

Then in my early Twenties, a young mother of two sons my daughter was not born at that time. My now ex-husband, and I were invited to attend a Church service at a little Church where you could count the Church members.

It was very exciting for me because I had never heard anyone preach the word of God from the Bible in such a way it touched my heart. I can still to this day remember hearing about Gods Salvation Plan and how Jesus Christ our Lord came and died for our sins. The word of God was foreign to me but at the same time beautiful and inspiring.

I was baptized in the name of Jesus the Church I attended was a non-denominational church In Jesus only name or the oneness Church. They strongly believe in (Act 2:38)  repent be baptized submerged in water in the name of Jesus only to be saved. They believe that speaking in tongues is a sign of being sealed with or receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. This religion denies the (Holy Trinity) and preach against it, they really believe that if you are baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit you are not saved.  I myself believed that once, that’s what I was taught to believe.  Don, I spoke in tongues many years ago I believe it was God’s gift to me, there was no interpreters there so I don’t know what I said God knows, I do know however I was praising God. They also taught that once baptized if you commit sin you forfeit your salvation never again to be forgiven but lose your soul forever because our Lord Jesus Christ died for us only once on the cross for forgiveness of sins. Looking back all of those years I now know that there was one thing missing in that religion probably one of the most important commandments.  Love and charity. (1 Cor 13) And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three: but the greatest of these is charity. There was almost a mean streak about them it’s sad but true, I really believe they meant well but they can’t see it’s like they are in darkness just like I was. Don, I believe now that you receive the Spirit of God when you become a believer in Jesus Christ our Lord. It’s God’s free gift to us. (Eph 4:30) And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

I was a member of that religion for ten years, I wore dresses I was not allowed to wear pants or shorts just dresses. The sleeves had be a certain length and I wore flat shoes, I used a hair covering, could not cut my hair, style, curl or color my hair use makeup or jewelry. We were not allowed to watch TV, listen to radio, go to the movies, parks, entertainment of any kind was considered worldly and not acceptable.  Did not celebrate Christmas, Easter or Thanksgiving any kind of holy days or holidays were not allowed not even birthdays. The one thing that was preached against the most was the (Holy Trinity) they really believe that the Triune of God does not exist.  However I don’t believe that way anymore this religion believes if you are not baptized in the name of Jesus you are lost, and you are not going to heaven they really believe you  be baptized in the name of Jesus in order to be saved.  Don, I know because I believed that way once myself.  How could I possibly think that only people in Jesus name are safe is beyond me who was I to judge others.

My ex-husband and I were to be relocated to another state he’s  job took us there. I can’t say I was not looking forward to it I was tired of all the hypocrisy and the lack of support and love from the Church members.  Although the transition was hard I remember  we could not find a Church to attend that we liked.

And so we just stop going and then the unthinkable happened.  I put my guard down and gave place to the devil.( Eph 4:27) Neither give place to the devil.  And Don, we sinned against God and my world changed forever.  Here I was this Women who thought she was so rooted in the Lord that nothing could possibly happen to her.  I was prideful in what I believed to be the truth. I thought I was right and everyone else was wrong in their believes.  I believed that you had to be baptized in Jesus name only for forgiveness of sins.  And that all those baptized in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit were not saved.  I believed you had to speak in tongues to receive the Holy Spirit.  I believed that everyone else had to be wrong and I had to be right because of my outward appearance I thought I was more righteous then others because I did what I was told to do according to the Church I attend.  I thought I was holier than thou because I was a submissive wife, and good mother I went to Church 3 times a week, I prayed and read my Bible and looked different than anyone else who said were a Christian.  How could I have possibly fallen from Grace!  how could I sin so greatly against my God that I love so very much.

Don, I have no one to blame but myself I take full responsibility for mine own actions.  I was not any better than the Church members I attended Church with.  I was prideful in my heart I was not humble I was blind and in darkness.  I had no more Love, compassion, charity then they did. I was like them but yet I thought I was better than anyone else in the world who did not agree with me.

And so I sinned and I knew my life had changed forever. My world literally came down on me like a ton of bricks, I could feel the weight of my sins on my shoulders and I was devastated.  And all I could think about was that I had fallen from Grace and that God would never ever forgive me again.  My spirit was crushed and the pain was unbearable everything I had work so hard for all those years was now gone. So I thought.

Don, I was angry how could this happen to me! I thought way did it happen to me, I was angry at myself, my husband everyone.  I knew the Church members would ridiculed me and say I was a backslider and no longer to be considered a sister in the Lord.

Don, I lost everything when I sinned against God or so I thought.  The one thing that I regret the most is that I thought I had lost God’s love forever and his forgiveness for what I had done I could not bear the thought it was too much for me to handle I did not want to think about it I just wanted to forget but I couldn’t.  I lost everything that ever mattered to me at that time in my life.  First I thought I had lost God in my life forever, I lost all hope where did my faith go I thought, I had none only the consent reminder of what I had done.  I lost my husband, and my home. My husband and I divorced and my family was split what a price to pay, it was horrible! I don’t wish this on anybody.

Don, it’s been years sense all of this happened but I never forgot about that little Church where I first heard the word of God. I thought about our Lord Jesus Christ and prayed and sang hymns once in a while.  I stopped going to Church because it was too painful, I could not bear the grieve and sorrow that I felt, the shame of it all and the guilt was overwhelming and the tears I have wept many times when thinking back on my past so much so, I could fill the ocean with my tears. I believe Jesus wept for me as well on Calvary tears of love and compassion and mercy for me and all humanity.

Don, I have faced the demons that taunt me for a long time it has been one of the most difficult things I have ever had to do. I have taken every emotion I have ever felt, every sin, guilt, shame, anger, sadness every lie that Satan whispered in my ear for years, everything bad that has happened to be in my life and I have taken it to the foot of the cross at Calvary.  Never to look back but forward with the Faith God instilled in me years ago.

Don, It has been almost a year sense I started going back to Church, I like the Church I attend although I must admit I I’m more careful and do a lot of more research on every subject and I’m not easily persuaded anymore. God has been good to me, I believe he has had Compassion and mercy on me. I like that verse in (Rom 9:15) For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have Mercy and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. I know God has had mercy and compassion on me if it weren’t so I would not be writing this letter or I would of never returned to church. I believe in God’s great mercy I know he forgives us for sins of our past, present and future.

I have learned a lot by my mistakes, I have learned not to judge others.

(Rom 2:1)

I was not a humble person I was prideful but God has shown me how to be a

humble person.

( 2 Chr. 7:14 )

I have learned to forgive others and forgive myself.

(Eph 4:32)

And I I’m still learning to Love more and try to me more like Christ.

( 1 Cor.13 )

I believe that we are saved by grace through faith.

(Eph 2:18

Don, God blessed me with a Bible verse that I love, when I most needed help God blessed me with this Bible verse.

(Psalms 27:14)  Wait on the Lord be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart; wait, I say, on the Lord.

Don,  I have one request to make will you please pray for my son Gabriel. He has gone missing for a few years I have not heard from him or seen him.  I had a really good relationship with my son I don’t know why he wants nothing to do with the family. Don, I love my son very much and forgive him, I just want him to come home to his family we miss him and love him very much.  Don, I know God loves us and does not disown his children anymore then I have disowned my child.  God loves me and his children he paid the price for us at Calvary on that cross with his precious blood we’ve been bought.

Don,  thank you so very much, for making a difference in my life. I pray that one day I too will be able to make a difference in someone else life. God bless you and you’re family and your website thank you again from the bottom of my heart.

Thank you,

Ruby

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 Don Koenig founded www.thepropheticyears.com website in 1999 after almost thirty years of independent study on the Bible and learning from many astute teachers within Christendom. Don created his website to write about Bible prophecy, biblical discernment and his Christian worldviews. Don wrote a free Revelation commentary ebook in 2004 named "The Revelation of Jesus Christ Through The Ages". The World and Church and Bible Prophecy section of this website was started in 2007.


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27 Responses to “Beware of getting snared by legalistic churches that love to put heavy burdens on your soul.”

  1. nasraniNo Gravatar says:

    Thanks for posting this testimony. I get the chills whenever I read or hear of these kinds of Evangelical cults. Although I used to go to a more biblical and non-charismatic Evangelical church myself, I have seen similar hypocrisy. Everything is very emotion-based. When you don’t stand up and clap in your hands to sing, you are regarded as if you are a heretic and don’t have the Spirit. What is that supposed to mean? I thought we were justified by faith in Christ – a gift of God – rather than by emotional experiences? Not surprisingly, there is a real lack of sound doctrinal beliefs and teaching in these churches. On the other hand, when certain non-essential doctrines are over-emphasized, that’s not good either. But in these “oneness” churches that Ruby attended, they were diligently preaching a heretical doctrine that deviates from the essential doctrine of the Holy Trinity! And of course the baptism with the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues. I find it quite clear from Scripture that these gifts have ceased.

    People in the church I used to go had silly views on certain matters as well. Some would also downright forbid TV at home but then they would have several computers with an Internet connection at home. If you didn’t participate in their church events you would be regarded with suspicion. Quite funny since some of these people would be engaging in all sorts of activities and hardly be at home. Instead they would let their kids be raised by the Sunday school teachers. They would ask you to donate money to projects they had started that were not feasible and then they’d say they put their trust in the Lord that they would succeed. Wow, whatever happened to individual and financial responsibility that the bible tells us about.

    Others would be taking advantage of other church members all the time by asking them to do their dirty work. And then they would treat them as heretics if they could not help because of family-related business or a lack of time in general. In Latin American countries I’ve heard that many of these pastors of Evangelical and Pentecostal churches actually ask their members to tithe and give up ten percent of their wages. What happens with all that money? Well, some of it will be used for good purposes but I’ve heard enough stories about greedy pastors to be suspicious about it.

    I also am disgusted by some of these people’s attitudes toward clothing. Of course men and women are different and I hate feminism myself. But some of these people sound like they hate any expression of feminity and beauty. Hello people, God created that beauty and made it to attract you! What kind of idea of modesty do they have if even a well-dressed woman from, say, the 1940s or 1950s, would be an abomination to them? I don’t like feminist women that dress and act like men at all but I’m not particularly attracted to women that deliberately have to dress ugly in the name of “modesty” either. That’s not modest or wise anyway. It’s extreme and repressive. A truly virtuous woman doesn’t need rules, she’s wise enough to know how to dress and act in a way that she will not get the *wrong* kind of attention from men. These people have more in common with the Wahabbi Muslims. They know nothing about Christian individual responsibility.

    Why can’t we all just act in a normal way? I am not saying ‘normal’ to such a degree that we conform to the world, but what are we supposed to do? Walk around in black suits and wear black hats like Orthodox Jews do? Or maybe live like the Amish in closed societies or kibbutzes if you will, and then be suprised to find you have all sorts of genetic diseases and sexual abuse as a result. Or maybe become hardcore pacifists and let the criminal rape your wife or kids or let the thieves steal your property while you sit by and watch.

    What these legalist ideologues are suggesting has nothing to do with the Law either. The Law reveals sin. The moral principles of the Law still apply and they are good. No question about that. But we are not saved by adhering to a set of self-imposed rules. If anything, Jesus’ sacrifice set us free from the curse of the Law and it is the Spirit who teaches us to live by the general principles of the Law. The rules that these cults impose on their members are not even found in the Law, or they are a very narrow interpretation of it that is taken out of context. The Law is also to be written in the hearts of genuine believers anyway rather than something self-annointed ‘leaders’ have to impose on others. Their legalism is nothing but the result of unsane thinking, biblical illiteracy and a hatred of Christian liberty. The spirit that drives the oneness cults is therefore deceptive and can only be demonic.

    I will pray that Ruby’s son Gabriel returns to his family.

    God bless,
    nasrani

  2. RachelNo Gravatar says:

    While I agree that we shouldn’t dress like the amish people, I think that women have a responsibility not to make men lust after us and too much make-up, tight clothes and trousers do turn men on, so we should be careful.
    Men are supposed to be the ones that ”wear the trousers,” and I am finding it increasingly difficult to find a skirt or dress in many shops now. The other day as we drove through the highstreet, I said to my husband, spot the dress or the skirt, town was packed and I only saw three women with skirts on and two of them were far too short(mini skirts).
    There are Christian girls now that are dressed just like the world, with very tight clothes that look like they have been painted on and tons of make-up, they look like they have stepped out of a fashion magazine, I’m sorry but that is too much like the world, it is not modest. Men are lusting after them and it’s the womens fault.
    I dress nice and do not have men staring at me, but if I dressed like the world, they would.

    To Ruby, I hope Gabriel comes home and will pray he does. Please let Don know if and when he does, so he can update this story and we can all rejoice with you.

    Love in Christ, Rachel.

  3. nasraniNo Gravatar says:

    Yes, but that’s basically what I said. I think we all have to be a bit reasonable on this and leave it up to the parents of young girls to decide what they consider appropriate or not. Also, it’s not because a man supposedly stares at a woman that he’s lusting after her and is being adulterous? There also would be no relationships and families if there was not some sort of sexual attraction involved either. You can also be so supposedly modest that there’s nothing that would attract a man to you anymore. Personality is undoubtedly the most important factor on the long term in order to have a lasting relationship but beauty and appearance do matter. That is simply the way things are biologically. If it weren’t for this outward attraction how many people would get to know someone’s personality? I think what is really unhealthy is when only the sexual attraction and the appearance are what you care for.

  4. RachelNo Gravatar says:

    I might not be a man, but I know men and know what turns them on and the way that women are dressing now is turning them on. They are committing adultery with them in their hearts. As for beauty being important, how do you think people who are not good looking attract a partner, it’s obviously deeper than looks and infact a better way, because looks fade and then what?
    I know men who are with women that don’t dress like the world and don’t wear make-up at all and their husbands love them very much and love the fact that they don’t dress to impress other men. They can do all of that for their own husbands in their own homes.
    Being neat and tidy and dressing modestly, that’s what matters.
    Men and Women of the world are shallow, but men and women of God should know better, they are changed creatures. God created us to look a certain way, he’s happy, so should we be.
    We need to ask what Gos want’s, not what we want. Your sister in Christ, Rachel.

  5. nasraniNo Gravatar says:

    Sure, but what I meant is that I’m turned off by some definitions used for modesty. I don’t like women or girls that wear suggestive clothing and tons of make up and dress ‘slutty’ in other words. It may attract you sexually but in reality it turns you off because it tells you something about the kind of woman you’re dealing with.

    But come on, some people turn such a spin on the word modesty that it seems like they want women to be ugly and hide their beauty. I thought it was quite natural for women to want to look attractive and for men to want a woman to look attractive? There’s nothing wrong about some make-up, a nice haircut and femine clothing or high heels. If there were then I guess that even the women in the 50s were slutty while I think they actually looked quite stylish and modest at the same time.

    Also, I don’t feel guilty for admiring beauty. I would be guilty if I were truly being lustful. Why can’t a man be allowed to admire feminity and beauty without always having to be accused of being an adulterous monster. To put it quite bluntly, I wouldn’t marry a woman that I found to be ugly and unattractive. Not because that is all that matters to me, but because I cannot fall in love with an ugly woman and want to have a family with someone I find utterly unattractive and that I wouldn’t want to have a sexual relationship with (which is healthy part of marriage). Of course that may just me. We all have different tastes in beauty and this diversity is also the hand of God. Otherwise all women and men would look the same and have the same characters.

    Sorry for being so straightforward and blunt on this but I don’t buy the “only inward beauty should matter” argument because it’s not realistic or natural.

  6. RachelNo Gravatar says:

    If a woman is beautiful, she doesn’t need make-up anyway.
    I’m not saying that women cant look pretty, but I am saying that even long skirts, if they are too tight show off a womans figure too much and do attract the wrong kind of attention. The way a woman moves when she walks will make matters worse.
    It’s one thing being sexy for your husband, but quite another if men are being caused to sin by the way a woman is dressing.
    Dresses and skirts dont have to be tight to look pretty and if they are not too tight they are more classy anyway.
    What I am saying is that clothes dont have to be ”slutty” to be immodest. Your sister in Christ, Rachel.

  7. DonNo Gravatar says:

    I think everyone that attends church should put on orange jump suits and wear flowers in their hair. :mrgreen:

    I also think that this blog post is really not about what is proper Christian dress and appearance and that we need to move on.

    As the saying goes, beauty really is in the eye of the beholder. The way you guys are carrying on one might think you were married. :wink:

    By the way, nobody can make anyone sin. We all do a fine job sinning all by ourselves.

  8. nasraniNo Gravatar says:

    People that walk around like the world and those that think they should dress like nuns. I’ve seen both among the Evangelicals and in both cases it was usually the women that were setting these standards for perceived acceptability instead of men. If everyone would just use their common sense instead of resorting to extremes in these and other matters there would probably be less people abandoning the Evangelical churches.

    But I agree it’s off-topic so I’ll shut up now. :mrgreen:

  9. RachelNo Gravatar says:

    Well, we are responsible not to lead anyone else into sin, if you can’t see that I cant make you.
    We are in the very last day’s and the Church is becoming more and more like the world every day.
    We are becoming desensetised to many thing’s and it is only going to get worse.
    It is not women setting the standards, if we are walking in the Spirit, we will see what God wants and the state that the Church is in, is not what God wants. Goodbye and God bless, Rachel.

  10. nasraniNo Gravatar says:

    Rachel, you appear to be implying that I disagree with you entirely and that I think it’s okay to dress immodestly. If you would re-read my initial post you would know that not to be the case.

    Modesty is a way of carrying yourself out of fear for God rather than a set of rules that determine what one can wear or what one cannot out of fear of others.

    I must say I often get the impression from both feminists and religious legalists that they fear men (either ‘sexual predators’ or ‘adulterous sinners’) and suffer from low levels of confidence and high levels of distrust. I am not getting adulterous thoughts whenever I see a girl that is dressed in a revealing manner, frankly. If anyone commits a sin that person is to be punished because he is reponsible for his own actions. If we take your argument to the extreme, then the rich man is guilty for being robbed because he was simply rich. If all people dressed in long black robes there would still be sexual abuse by men and there would also still be adulterous women.

    In the ancient times, few men wore trousers at all and many walked around topless. Is that revealing and immodest too? How do you determine whether or not they were promiscuous? Are all modern-day girls promiscuous because they wear clothes that might be considered immodest or too revealing (which it may well be)? Should modern-day Western men also stop wearing suits because many women are attracted to men in suits or uniform and it may give some women adulterous thoughts? And if a women has these thoughts, is that the result of the suit – hence the fault of the handsome and well-groomed man wearing the expensive suit – or is the result of the woman’s own fantasies, rather? What about elegance and personal style?

    I hope this will clarify my point (don’t take it personally) :

    I would rather have a good-looking wife who dresses elegantly, wears high heels, a little bit of make-up occasionally, and skirts that reveal the anckles, but is nonetheless loyal to her husband and makes a good mother, than have a stuck-up whining woman who appears outwardly extremely pious and wears flat shoes and a head scarf with a huge cross around her neck but doesn’t trust her husband enough to let me go out because she fears I will be committing adultery every time I see a good-looking woman.

    Anyway, this is one of these topics you can debate on endlessly. Although it’s an issue that was mentioned by Ruby, I think we better leave it at this because it is beyond the scope of this forum and the main point was legalism in Christianity anyway rather than modest dress. I just wanted to clarify my position on this since you responded to my initial remarks on this topic. It’s not my intention to get into arguments or hijack this thread.

    Have a nice weekend and God bless.

  11. RachelNo Gravatar says:

    I will leave just one more comment on this subject also.
    I was not implying that you disagree with me entirely, but I do think that many Christians are too worldly today. If I walk down the street today, I cannot tell the difference between the world and the Christian.
    Maybe you think I dress like a nun and wear a big cross around my neck, I do neither as I am not a catholic.
    I dress the way I do, through fear of dishonouring God, not through fear of what men think. I’m sure there are many Christians who dress in a way that I would also find over the top that are being misjudged and are dressing the way they do, because they fear God and not men, infact I know this to be true.
    I don’t know how you think I dress, but it isn’t ”ugly” or anything.
    All I am saying is clothes should not be figure hugging, or above the knee, for what I think are obvious reasons. I’m glad that you don’t have a problem with lust, that’s great, but many men do, the old flesh is still there and we all need to think of others. Some brothers and sisters are weak and we should not cause them to stumble.
    We are to be Holy and pure, we are not to be like the world, but are to come out of it.

    I don’t know where you get in ancient times men walked around topless.
    Men walking around topless in the summer is not what Christian men should be doing that’s for sure as this can turn women on.
    I’m not saying that the way modern women dress makes them a slut, I am saying that they are not thinking about the affect they are having on men. It is having an affect on lot’s of men, just because it doesn’t affect you, doesn’t mean it doesn’t affect other men. I know men it does affect.

    Anyway, enough about this now, I hope you understand where I am coming from and that I’m not a feminist, as that would make me worldy also, as feminists are against Scripture.

    God bless you, love Rachel.

  12. DonNo Gravatar says:

    Here’s what I think.

    I get turned on by woman who are cute looking. So I want all of you women to wear veils…come to think of it that would not work either because I might think that you were trying to cover up your cuteness and I might become obsessed with getting a look behind the veil.

    Oh well, maybe you women should just wear bags over your head because I do not get turned on by woman looking like old bags. :lol:

  13. RachelNo Gravatar says:

    God is not laughing at your comments, I feel grieved by what you have just said.

    Be ye therefore followers of God as dear children: And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling savor. But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks Ephesians 5:1-4.

    The thought of foolishness is sin: and the scorner is an abomination to men. Proverbs 24:9.

  14. DonNo Gravatar says:

    How would you know what God is doing? What you say here is not speaking for God either. Obviously from what I read you are very much bound up in outward appearances. I also see you cannot even take a joke.

    Anyone can choose a scripture to sound holier than thou. Try this one on if you wish to follow blind obedience to everything said in scripture.

    1 Cor 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
    35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
    36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?

    Now don’t tell me this is not a church. The Church is where Christians are.

  15. RachelNo Gravatar says:

    That verse is talking about the assembly and this is not the assembly.
    Saved people are the Church, but there are many churches. There is one Devil, but many devils.

    You may think telling jokes about sin is ok, but it is not.

    I am only a sinner saved by grace, but we are called out of this world and there should be a huge difference between us and the world.

    I do stay sinent in the assembly and I wear a head covering in the assembly as Scripture tells women to do.

  16. DonNo Gravatar says:

    This certainly is an assembly of Christians but certainly not a seeker friendly one :grin: you continually miss the point anyway.

    Just the fact that you keep silent in your local assembly and that they think an actual head covering fulfills the requirement of Paul’s teaching tells me that you and your assembly seem to follow the letter of what Paul said and you miss the spirit. Woman can speak in the assemblies you really do not understand why Paul said what he said or why I said what I said. Also, the covering represents women being under the authority of men and not just some garment woman put on their head.

    Your sounding more and more legalistic to me and that is probably why everything you say here is about dress, lust and sin in other peoples lives when that really is not the topic of this post. It also seems that you cannot take correction, appear humorless and you always have to have the last word. Those are not exactly the traits I would expect to find in Sarah.

  17. RachelNo Gravatar says:

    Ok, I’m not going to take this any further on a site that is viewed by many unsaved people, I should not have replied to your post. We will have to agree to disagree. Goodbye and God bless. Love Rachel.

  18. nasraniNo Gravatar says:

    Rachel, why are you taking what I have been saying so personally? I was not saying you were dressing ugly and neither did I refer to you when I said that some seem to feel the desire to dress “like” nuns. I was merely using figurative language to make my point. Clearly I have failed to get it across. I have been talking about modest dress in the context of this article’s topic of legalism and I was particularly talking about the Evangelical churches. For the record, I don’t really have anything against nuns even though I’m not a Catholic and don’t believe in the necessity for monasticism, but I do respect those who take the vow of celibacy if they believe it’s the best way for themselves (hence, not universally) to serve God.

    Look, even just a pretty face, a nice voice and beautiful hair can turn a man or a woman on? Next thing you know there will be some people who figure that women should wear the veil and all men should have long and untrimmed beards. If you take the verses that say we should be careful not to lead anyone to fall to the extreme, then we may in effect be leaving no more room for individual responsibility, Christian liberty or the responsibility that Christian parents have for their children.

    It’s really none of my business how any woman – whether Christian or not – dresses as long as their husbands are fine with it and they’re dressing in a wise and responsible manner. Like I said, modesty is really a personality trait and a way of carrying yourself with dignity. There’s no set of rules of what can or cannot be worn as even a person who does dress with caution can still be looked at lustfully by others. Then tell me who’s guilty. Some degenerates even lust after young children. I’m sure we all agree that’s not the children’s fault for “attracting” the pedophile?

    I kind of like to watch old movies from the 50s sometimes and usually the kind of clothing I see there is very modest but also enhancing masculinity and femininity. There’s some make-up but it’s rarely overdone. There are still young people today who dress modestly even if it means for some girls that they wear trousers rather than a skirt. It’s not my or anyone’s problem if some people can’t deal with any possible sign of body shapes and are obsessed with it. Why should anyone have to adapt to some people’s obsessive minds?

    A lot of this talk about modest dress is really woman’s talk, no matter what you claim. As a man I am attracted to women that are good-looking and feminine but also virtuous. I don’t like stuck-up women that want to show everyone just how “sexy” God made them but I don’t like jealous women that are afraid of being looked at or despise their own appearance either… I have to admit that I have to laugh whenever I hear women deny that they are attracted to a well-groomed and financially stable man and care only for his “inner beauty.” Either they’re lying or they are falling for his charms and getting used by their significant other only to end up being hit and abused.

    Both feminists and legalists want to make something out of women that is unnatural. When I hear some women talk about modest dress they are really implying that men are the problem. Beauty and appearance in their narrow worldview are not important and they really want men (and I guess women too) to choose a partner based on “inner beauty” only even if they will say that’s not true. Frankly, I think that is just not natural to expect from either men or women and nobody has to tell me otherwise. I will stand by what I have said in my initial post on this issue. Enough said. I apologize to Ruby that her message has lead to this sort of debate..

  19. RachelNo Gravatar says:

    I would just like to apologise, for arguing with other Christians on a forum that is viewed by many unsaved people. I should not have done it, even when we dissagree with one another, we should not air it to everyone and his mother. I am the one at fault here and I am very sorry. With love, Rachel.

  20. DonNo Gravatar says:

    Rachel, no apology is really necessary. If Christians did not debate their different views from the scriptures the weight of the truth on some issues could not be determined by many.

    You assume that many unsaved people are reading the comments on this post. I can assure you that is not happening because the keywording on this post are not those that unbelievers would use to find this post and not many people read a long comments section anyway unless it about some topic they are interested in.

    The only issue I see is that going off on this rabbit trail has distracted from the reason why I posted this post in the first place. But, I have myself to blame for that since I allowed comments that did not contribute to Ruby’s email. For that I apologize to her.

    For that reason, I want any future comments on this post to address the issues in the original post and not these comments. If I receive any they will not be posted.

  21. ShawnNo Gravatar says:

    I really hope Ruby & her son Gabriel reunited since the last comment. I’ve gotta say for all the nonsense Ruby put up with I believe her statement defining what it is to be a Christian is 100% spot on…that kind of understanding only comes from God.

  22. I had forgotten about this topic and thread.

    Don, have you heard anything further from Ruby??

  23. DonNo Gravatar says:

    Not that I recall but that was a long time ago.

  24. RubyNo Gravatar says:

    Greetings,

    I have wonderful news to share, just wanted to let everyone on this blog know that I have been reunited with my son Gabriel, in May of this year. I want to thank Jesus Christ our Lord for making it possible for me and my family to have Gabriel back in our lives. I really love the Lord with all of my heart He is everything to me and I will praise Him for ever. I also want to thank all of those who took time to pray for my son and myself. Jesus, is all together lovely thank you, all so very much and God Bless.

  25. Ruby, Thanks for letting us know the good news!

  26. SandyNo Gravatar says:

    Though this is an old thread, I really enjoy reading how men think, mainly Don and nasrami. As a woman this is a topic I’m very interested in and it helps to see such balanced views. Please do not feel bad for getting off topic, I don’t think it was off topic really cause it was about legalism.

    As for Rachel, I use to be very overly concerned, much like you, though you probably don’t see it as that, and understanding the bible better, helped. There is a site by Glenn Miller called the ‘Christian Think Tank” and he teaches and believes that we are saved by Grace through faith alone, and he helps Christians understand some of the harder to understand scripture that may lead to legalism and such. I’ve received a lot of help from reading his site, especially what it says about women in the bible.

    I hope this helps. As for any Christians reading this post, please pray that God would help me fully understand Salvation through Grace, I’m just learning, after living in legalism for years.

    Thanks!

Comments are closed.

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