Its time for Obama to get serious and take military action against Iran. Iran is on the verge of developing nuclear weapons and the systems to deliver them. Some say it will take Iran another year or two and others say they could develop a nuke in just a few months. Those projections are based on what we do know. However, there are many things that we do not know. Who knows what is going on in secret underground facilities in Iran? They could already have nukes and the public portion of this nuclear charade is for public consumption and just a smoke screen. If that is the case we are putting our forces in the Middle East in great danger.
Intelligence is not an exact science. In spite of America having some of the best intelligence agencies in the world America found out that Iraq was only months away from developing nukes before the first gulf war not years like U.S. Intelligence thought. American Intelligence also thought North Korea only had a Plutonium reactor but now we know that they were enriching weapons grade uranium in a secret program as well. Syria would probably have Plutonium for a nuke by now if Israel did not recently bomb that secret reactor project. American Intelligence did not even know about it. Burma has a secret nuclear weapons program but Intelligence only found out about it through recent defectors. Even Israel’s nuclear weapons program was developed in secret and our Intelligence still probably does not know their real nuclear capabilities. So, it is rather naive for American Intelligence to think that they really have a handle on what is going on in those black projects in the tunnels of Iran. Even from what Iran releases to the public it looks like they could have nukes very soon, but we can also be sure they are not giving anyone full disclosure.
So frankly America is out of time and it is time for Obama to get serious and take the necessary military action on Iran. If we wait for Iran’s public announcement to go nuclear and then build up a strike force like we did in Iraq we could lose carrier groups or entire bases. Sure, that would be suicidal for Iran but the leaders of Iran do not care. They expect the Mahdi will come save them. In fact, this doomsday cult running Iran have make it quite clear to the world that they want war with Israel and the West so that Shia Eschatology will be fulfilled.
I think America has already waited too long to take action on Iran. If we are going to strike Iran now with minimum risk we will now have to hit Iran with a massive shock and awe surprise attack. Building up an attack force in the gulf like we did in Iraq will only give Iran targets. A build up in the gulf will not get Iran to give up their nuclear weapons program but it will expose us and others for a first strike by Iran.
So what should America do? We should put enough carrier groups within range of Iran but keep them out of range for Iran to hit. At some determined date within months we should take out all their defenses with cruise missiles and high tech electromagnetic pulse weapons etc. Right after that we should hit the thousands of targets that we have already identified with missiles, smart bombs and bunker busters. America should use air strikes, special forces, Marines, airborne and our navy on the coast to disable all threats to shipping lanes. We should take out hardened bunkers and risky targets to large populations with our special forces. The U.S. also should destroy all the Revolutionary Guard that can be located unless they turn and rebel against the ruling oligarchy. Within 48 hours from when we begin the attack America should be dropping leaflets all over Iran telling the Iranian regular military and the people to take to the streets and the NATO forces will support them in their opposition to whatever is left of this illegal regime. Air dropping small arms and other supplies to the Iranian people might be in order.
Undoubtedly Israel will take fire from Hezbollah, Lebanon and Hamas and perhaps Syria (if Syria has a death wish). If that happens Israel is quite capable of eliminating all threats around them.
Would Obama buy off on this? Believe it or not I think he will. Iran is not an Arab state and most of the Arab states want the nuclear Iranian threat taken out. Also, neutralizing Iran is essential for the success of Obama’s Afghanistan war and stability in Iraq. However, the main reason Obama might support this is that it would do wonders for his poll numbers. It would also change the world view that Obama is just another weak indecisive Jimmy Carter. In fact, if Obama does nothing about Iran and America loses thousands in a first strike by Iran. Obama could be the second president ever removed from office.
So what about the terrorist threat and the sleeper cell threat? Their probably will be some attacks around the world but it would not last long if the governments supporting the terrorists were taken out. If the ruling Mullahs were taken out in Iran and if Israel cleans up around their State terrorism would lose quite a bit of support. Any action by terrorists would bring them out in the open where they could be effectively dealt with. Sleeper cells become exposed when they go active. Any terrorist attacks on U.S. soil would work to the advantage of this administration anyway. It would allow more government control over the people and it would be a distraction from the dire economic situation. A strike on Iran is a win win situation for Obama and he probably already knows it. I think it is now just a matter of timing for him. Hopefully, he won’t be so concerned about the timing of the strike (to distract the nation about its economic problems or to get a bump in the polls) that he makes the fatal mistake of actually waiting too long.
It simply would not be smart for America to wait for Israel to attack Iran either. First, because Israel would not be able to destroy the hundreds of targets that need to be destroyed to set Iran’s weapons program back much. Second, the U.S. will get dragged into the war anyway because Iran will attacks our troops and close the straights to shipping. Then America would be exposed to attack and still have to deal with a formidable Iranian defense capability. Also, if Israel acted alone Israel would be scapegoated by the Arab and Islamic nations. It would become a real messy situation for the U.S. so why would America even put themselves in the position of a pawn. America need to take the offensive in this matter and checkmate Iran because we are the only nation that can end the game. America needs to show leadership on stopping nuclear proliferation or it is going to spread all over the world.
Don,
What about Russia in all this with their current support of Iran?
That another reason why we cannot waste anymore time. Today Russia is not going to do anything if we take out Iran’s nuclear weapons program. Once Russia rebuilds its military and alliances it will be a different story. We should not hit the Russian built Bushehr reactor if we insure that this light water reactor will be monitored by the IAEA. It will provide electricity for the Iranian people and it would pose no immediate nuclear weapons threat.
We know there is a time in the not to distant future when Gog is coming with Russia and Iran against Israel and there is nothing we can do to stop that prophetic event. But, that event is not the immediate threat because Russia today does not have the capability to project that kind of a force into the Middle East.
This is one of many situations threatening to bubble over. Obama is not exactly a pro-military response president, and perhaps Israeli intelligence will be able to knock out these things–wishful thinking, perhaps, on my part.
Do they Israelis know the location of all these places? Do they have people planted, or technology to deal with this?
The Israelis know what we know and also have highly advanced military capabilities but they simply cannot do the massive bombing that will be required to take out the Iranian nuclear weapons program. The best they could do is delay Iran’s nuclear program a few years but they could not destroy Iran’s conventional offensive capabilities and would have to deal with a counter response from Iran.
The U.S. really needs to eliminate the Iranian threat quick and clean before Iran can use events to get Islamic passions in the world to run amok. Because if that happens we will soon see world war III play out from Europe to the Far East. By the way, that is what the cult leaders in Iran want and expect, so why play into their hand by waiting for a Israeli attack that is likely to do only that.
I fear for my teenage sons. If I had to guess, I’d say no attack, US or Israel, is forthcoming in the near term. Furthermore, I believe, when we pull out of Iraq, it will be utterly defenceless and vulnerable to attack by Iran.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/indepth/2010-08/17/c_13449411.htm
At some point this evil will need to be confronted. The problem is it will be on their terms (re: Germany 1939)
You see, Obama needs to stay in the kiddie pool of world politics. The deep end is beyond his capabilities. And for his, and I will add to it his predecessor, lack of leadership, I fear our sons will have to pay the price eventually.
God help us.
The situation really is getting out of hand. It seems that everywhere we look we see the threat for war. In my opinion we are in the early stages of WW3, and Iran is just one of many nations that are slowly starting to beat their drums. If you haven’t noticed, the CIA today mentioned that Yemen is now more of a threat than the taliban and al-quaida in Afgh/Pakistan. Also Somalia is starting to get more and more attention in the media. Folks it’s here. The stage is setting up for an unprecedented conflict. My question though is mainly about timing. Is Gog leading Russia? Putin surely does fit a type of Gog. He does not seem to want to leave any time soon. Turkey is aligned with Iran now, and they are two important pieces of the Ezekiel prophecy. The big question seems to be, is Russia capable of joining these nations..and leading a great and vast army? I think I could argue for yes and no. But im not so sure Russia may feel it needs to have a superior army to the US or even China for that matter to achieve its goal. Maybe Russia will be forced to make a move into the Middle East, due to Iran’s growing influence? After all, Russia has always wanted control of the rich Middle East. I think something will have to happen to the US though before Russia would make the move. We have too much miltary might, namely Air power, for them to just start lining up across the border. Maybe a severe financial meltdown? which we are arguably in now..? There are just too many factors..and what about China?
To all: Before you start throwing eggs at me, and accusations of being a pacifist, unpatriotic, etc., etc. Please bare with me here.
First and foremost, my citizenship is in heaven, not here on earth according to the world and it’s ways. I learned that the hard way. In 1987, I believed on The Lord for salvation. In 1990 I decided to run for republican committeeman, my pastor warned me that politics is not a place for a Christian. He was right! I won the election, and soon learned what goes on behind closed political doors. I thought I was going to make a difference for America, and be a part of “Taking America Back”. I will tell you now, the ONLY WAY you become successful in politics is to compromise all that you are and all that you believe! You must become everything that you always found disgusting! A liar, a deceiver, traitor, thief, and worse. I left politics in 1992…for good.
What does all this have to do with attacking Iran? Everything. It’s worldly politics and it’s worldly ways that will destroy you, not them. We are not called to wars nor are we called to advise governments when or when not to attack. We are called to peace, not war.
When Pilate was concerned about the followers of Jesus attacking, what was Jesus’ reply to Pilate?
Did Jesus tell us to love our enemies? If so, in what way are we to love them? How?
Which is better for us to do? Advise Obama and Israel to attack Iran, or to pray for peace, and to pray that the leaders of this world believe on The Lord for salvation and to do that which is right?
We are not called to the ways of the world, we are called OUT OF IT. We cannot have one foot in heaven and one foot in the world. It’s one or the other.
I remember a TV ‘evangelist’ saying about some Christians that, “They’re so heavenly minded that they’re no earthly good!” To that I say…AMEN! And well they should be! Otherwise, they’re of the world! We are called OUT (ecclesia) of the world, and soon will be when the trumpet blows.
I know many of you are concerned, and I am too. But I’m not afraid. Everything is GOING BY THE BOOK, just as prophesied. And Jesus told us not to be afraid.
Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
There are those who tell me that Jesus told His disciples to buy a sword. Yes, they had TWO, and only TWO, to take on an entire legion of roman soldiers. When Peter used the sword, Jesus quickly rebuked Peter and HEALED THE ENEMY’S ear that Peter sliced off.
Let’s be about The Lord’s work and tell people about salvation that Jesus bought for all who would believe on Him, and not about the world and it’s warlike politics. Lets encourage each other in The Lord, and remind each other of The Lord’s soon return for His church, and not the world’s ‘church’. As for Israel…GOD is protecting her. period.
John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
Thank you for your time.
ps I served in Vietnam 1970-71, I have two sons who served in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Frank, I would tend to agree with you that peace is better than war. All I’m saying is I fear that we will be drawn into a world war, over what would appear to be pour leadership. And let’s be clear, our leadership has been pour for quite some time now.
Steve, There are at least four factors that make the Ezekiel war impossible right now. 1. Israel is not living in peace and security. 2. Israel is surrounded by hostile Arab nations that are not mentioned in the Ezekiel war so something has to happen to these nations first before the Ezekiel war (I suggest the Psalm 83 war). 3. Russia does not now have the capabilities to be a mighty army that comes against Israel to take a spoil and will not have those capabilities for at least a decade. 4. Russia comes to take a spoil at time when Israel is living in peace, security and prosperity so that also suggests three things. 1. Israel has to defeat its nearby neighbors. 2.Israel has to becomes very wealthy 3. Russia has to become in dire need of what Israel has. None of these conditions are true today.
China is another issue, right now she is a regional threat and there could be regional wars involving China before the Kings of East march together to the Middle East. China will be a superpower and a major threat to the world in about twenty years. There probably will be several regional wars in the Far East before that time and before we get to the Revelation prophecies. We should not think that any Far East regional war is a fulfillment of these prophecies before it becomes obvious.
There is little question in my mind that the US will not be a major player after this decade. That will bring a whole new world order and it will not be a better one or a peaceful one for the world.
Frank, are you saying that Christian should not advise world leaders to do what is right or fight on the side of just causes against the evil tyrants of this world? Did Paul tell Christians under Rome to leave the Army and to withdraw from the world? Is the salt and light here just to let the Hitler’s of the world reign so like in Islam they can make sure the Christian message never gets out. Does God use people of faith in their bodies of flesh to oppose evil or are we to show our faith in God by watching evil consume the weak and innocent?
How do Christians tell the world about Christ if evil people in nations do not allow the message to be told? Does God raise up armies of other nations against the evil so it can be told. You bet!
Did God really change his methods of using men of faith to deal with evil in the world?
Interesting..what do you think could be the spoils that Russia comes after? I have heard oil, but Russia seems to have plenty of that. Could riches just be a general term for jealousy and hatred for the Jews, and mainly their success in all they do? You are probably right about Russia needing several years to even think about putting a servicable army together..I cant help but get ahead of myself here though..it all just seems to be fitting in place. As for the short term, perhaps Israel/US strike Iran. Then Iran launches a proxy war with Hezbollah and Hamas..causing Israel in turn to wipe out her enemies around her?
I think the passage like the rest of the prophecy means exactly what it says.
Apparently they come to plunder a greater Israel. This could happen because of the collapse of the world economic system and a general world crop failure. The Soviet Union in its peak had the Army to fulfill the prophecy but Israel was not living in peace and really had nothing worth plundering. Obviously that is soon going to change and we know Pultin has put in place a plan to rebuild the Russian army and form a new Union. Even Pultin said it will take 10 or more years to do that. Somehow many Bible prophecy experts just fluff over obvious reality.
Brother Don: I’m not trying to be argumentative, I’m just stating what I believe is right.
Was King Agrippa considered a world leader? What advice did Paul give to King Agrippa? Did he advise King Agrippa to attack Rome and rid Israel of the evil empire? To rebel against Rome for Israeli independence? No, he didn’t. What he did do was give him the gospel of salvation, to which King Agrippa replied, “…Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.” Acts 26:28. Paul had every opportunity to convince King Agrippa to rid Israel of tyrannical Roman occupation, and Israeli independence, a ‘good cause’, but instead, gave him the gospel. And that is what we should do.
Paul never told Christians to join the Roman army, or to get involved in Roman politics for the cause of Christ or to rid the world of tyrants.
In the past 2000 years, can you show me one Christian who can be compared to Barak, Gideon or King David in a military sense? Even the ‘reformation’ persecuted genuine Christians who refused to be under the yoke of Martin Luther, Zwingli, John Huss or John Calvin, the murderer. Look at the history of sad Geneva under Calvin. Look what the ‘Puritans’ (Strange name since all in Christ are made pure, not because they don’t curse, drink or smoke cigarettes) did to those who refused to live according to THEIR gospel, all in the name of ‘religious freedom’!
Where in the Bible does it say to be, “unequally yoked” with unbelievers in Christ? Regardless of how good the cause may be?
Hebrews chapter 11 is a treatise on faith, not military might.
How about this? By faith, Christians prayed unto God for their leaders to be saved, and do that which is right. Or, by faith, Christians prayed that their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ would return soon, to deliver them from this present evil world. Or, by faith, Christians prayed for the peace of Jerusalem. Would these be acceptable? Are we not called to a higher calling than those of the Old Testament days? Yes, we are. What they did by faith using the sword, we do by faith through prayer. Our SWORD is The Word of God.
Of the seven churches in Revelation, chapters 2 & 3, why is Pergamos the only one threatened with the two edged Sword of The Lord? Could it be that they too trusted in the sword? After all, they did have the doctrine of the Nico (to conquer) Laitans (the people). Something to think about.
If President Obama did take your advice, and destroyed those nuclear reactors, and you see those dead bodies in the streets, men, women & children, are you willing to take some responsibility for that? Are you willing to stand before The Lord and say, “Well, they deserved that! It was either them or us! Our cause was just!” ?
We need to trust The Lord, not the sword.
In Christian love, Frank Ebell
I really do not have time to argue with you on all the points that you brought up Frank. You are really comparing apples and oranges and making straw men arguments. Obviously it was not time for Jesus to set up the Kingdom so why would Paul tell the established rulers in Israel to rebel against Rome? A more fitting example is what Abraham did when Lot was taken captive.
Nobody is telling Christians to take up arms in rebellion. But we should advise and support reasonable governments that we live in for the benefit of all.
Our democratic form of government requires citizen participation. That is why we also have free speech guaranteed. The government of Rome was a tyrannical dictatorship.
Are you willing to take the consequences if Obama never takes action against Iran and Iran launches a nuclear EMP attack over America that brings about conditions that causes the death of 80 percent or more of Americans? Are you willing to stand before the Lord and say I knew of the danger but advised against slaying these mad predictors because you were suppose to protect Americans and not the governments that you put in place to protect Americans?
No support of military action is allowed by Christians in your mind? Gee, I guess us Christians in the United States should not have supported the World War II effort so then we could try to preach Christianity under the God Emperor of Japan and the Nazi’s? I guess you also think no Christian should support or advise local law enforcement to take action against those that rape, murder and plunder this nation as well.
You see Frank, what you are really doing is cherry picking passages to support a heretical concept that is not taught in the Bible. It is called Christian pacifism.
Now that I have a bit more time I will continue with my take on Franks arguments.
When Jesus comes back will he come in mercy or as a Lion? When angels carry out the judgment of God is there mercy or wrath on the earth? When the two prophets of God come in Israel will they preach mercy or have the power to bring down judgment as often as they wish? Much of the world rejects the Christian message. And the purpose of the tribulation is to separate the tares from the wheat and remove evil from the earth. So yes, God is a god of mercy but when nations become an abomination they will received His wrath.
The Islamic nations are committing terrible abominations by killing anyone that does not bow their knee to Baal and his cruel laws. God is about to judge Islam and he is going to use the message coming from the Church and the military power of the West to free these people trapped in Islam. They will also get a chance to hear the truth before the end.
You ask, can any one Christian be compared to the OT saints in a military sense? The Church was never called to carry out military conquest but if armies were not influenced by Christians raised to deal with the evils, the christian message would have been shut down a long time ago. God raises up one evil nation to deal with another evil nation. Have we Western nations also become evil and will we get in more wars? Sure,if we do not repent. But if Christian men say and do nothing when they see evil what good are they? If we elect people who say they are Christians to office and then do not help them discern between good and evil what good are we?
It is not just a coincidence that the best times on earth are right after a bloody war. God uses wars to remove evil men from the earth. As a wise man once said there is a time for war and there is a time for peace. So knowing this and the evil in Iran should we support Israel and receive the blessing promised to those who support Israel or receive the curse of those that curse Israel. What should Christians say to the government representatives they help elect. Should they say, just let Israel take care of themselves and let Iran set up conditions on earth to insure that nuclear war will become inevitable? It is not just Israel and Iran involved here either. If Iran goes nuclear so will many other nations.
I say all that because things are not as black and white as you seem to think. Christians have a roll besides just proclaiming the gospel. We are to be salt and light to the world. In other words we should have the answers. We are going to judge angels yet should the Church not even be able to judge between good and evil on earth today?
The only city anyone is told to pray for in the Bible is for Jerusalem but the rest of verse goes “they shall prosper that love thee”. That is part of the promised blessing for those that do not appose God’s plan for Jerusalem. However, if we love Jerusalem we cannot be supportive of a nation that intends to nuke Jerusalem. But in correct context that passage is really talking to the Jews not the Church. So where in the NT does it tell Christian to pray for a nation or a city? It does not!
It only says to pray for leaders for our own sakes. So your idea that the Church is to “by faith” pray for the peace of Jerusalem is not even implied. Jerusalem will never have peace until the prince of peace comes and we have no control over that. That is in the Father’s own timing and authority. In any case, the praying for the peace of Jerusalem is not a model for spiritual warfare over the demonic cities and governments of the world. Show me one example where a nation turned to Christ without hard work by individual missionaries sharing the gospel? Even then the majority still rejects true Christianity. The fact is that we do not convert cities or nations by our faith. The people in those cities and nations must come to hear from God through us and believe by their own faith.
How are we being unequally yoked with unbelievers by partaking in the political process of the nations we dwell in? If you want to take that route, are those that work for government unequally yoked? Are all those Christians that get benefits from governments also unequally yoked?
If we are not going to participate in the affairs of the nation how can we be salt and light? Sure, if the Church joined the State like the Catholic Church once did yours would be a fitting statement but that is not the case in the United States.
I also warn of the dangers of Dominion Theology in the far Right, so we should guard that we never make that mistake that the Church is going to rule on earth before Jesus returns and deals with the evil or else we will become the evil.
Yes, the sword of Christians is the word of God but the sword of our nation is its might. You say don’t be unequally yoked, but you seem to confuse what that is. For the Church to advise our leaders on the right course against evil to protect Christians and Jews in the world is not being unequally yoked with unbelievers. The world can accept our wisdom or reject it and receive the consequences. We should not be any under delusion that we are going to make the unbelieving leaders of the world do anything.
“why is Pergamos the only one threatened with the two edged Sword of The Lord? Could it be that they too trusted in the sword?” you ask? The answer is no. They were fought against by the Word of God for the very reason we know from history. They went into Gnosticism and they were fought against with the Word of God. The Holy Canon was put together during this time period. The sword of God (the Word) exposed the heretics for what they were just like Jesus said. It has nothing to do with the Church using the physical sword. By the way, other churches in Revelation are dealt with harshly by God and at least one goes into great tribulation. So this conjecture of yours really has no foundation.
Yes, the Church needs to trust the Lord but we should known that God brings wars on earth to deal with evil people.
Does the US have enough money to go to war with Iran?
A campaign that would last only a few days would hardly have any impact on our budget. We would just be using existing weapons that are replaced with newer ones every so often anyways.
Would oil prices go up?
I am sure there would be some speculation at first but the only reason oil prices would go up for more than a couple of days is if the shipping of oil was disrupted or oil facilities of Arab nations were hit by Iran. Making sure that could not happen would be one of the main objectives of the surprise strike. Of course any long term security in the gulf would mean that that a revolution would be successful in Iran. But, there is every reason to think it would if we did this right.
There is quite a bit of surplus oil capability in the world right now and that is another reason not to delay.
Thank you for all of the work that you have put into this Don.
The thing that surfaces with me is that there have been times in
my life where I was dealing with a difficult sitution. Praying and
having faith are wonderful things. But people have chided me sometimes
that it was important to do things in the natural also. Iran is an
evil threat to the world. Our President needs to act like a major player.
He should stop being concerned if the world likes him. It is his
responsibility to defend America. If he cannot do that he should not
run for reelection.
I think Iran is going to get away with it and is going to be an unstabilizing force in the Middle East. I am of this opinion because I do not see Obama as a warrior but more as a politician who wants to be appaluded by everyone. In that way, he is more like Solomon that like David. He is not prone to war or to resolving things with arms.
Furthermore, his union to Israel is very weak and and he has been flirting with the islamic nations. He won’t do it for Israel’s protection. He is not a christian so he wont do it because it is the right thing to do. Also, he’s had problems with his commanders in the army and I am not sure how comfortable he feels leading the army.
I know he wants popularity, but this war would not make him popular with the Left that supports him. If Iran attacks Israel I think that maybe Obama will respond…but with a weak response. If Iran does not attack anyone, then he will not do anything. The main reason why I think this way is that he has not done anything up to this point to stop Iran from going nuclear.
That is the usual assessment of Obama but if He does nothing will Israel do nothing about Iran’s nuclear weapons program?
Maybe that is why Obama is demanding that there be a peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians within a year and is also telling Israel that Iran will not have the bomb for another year.
If Obama gets a peace deal he thinks Iran will go along with it and play nice and he will get reelected or better yet made Security General of the UN as a world peace maker. Of course any delusions and scenarios like that will actually lead to World War III.
There are too many wild card for this to play out as expected by the liberals. One more border crash could start a war with Lebanon and Hezbollah. What will Iran do ten? Or there could be a clash at sea. Or even Iran or terrorists could purposely make sure that a peace agreement would not happen.
What we continue to hear from most world leaders and intelligence agencies is that Iran is X-months-years-decades away from their own nuclear capabilities. We’ve heard this for how many years? And it seems that soon after each vocal assurance from our leaders, Iran (or North Korea, or Pakistan, etc.) have made their next milestone in acquiring nuclear weapons.
If it wasn’t so serious, it would be laughable! Either these intelligence agencies know (or guess) where these nations are but can’t report that for political reasons, or there is blindness (maybe willful blindness). It seems that anyone who has a modicum of observational powers can guess that these nations are ever closer to their goals. The ONLY intelligence agency’s assessments I trust come from Israel’s Mossad.
It is my opinion that our current administrations wants Iran to have nuclear weapons in order to bring the kind of stability they wish to the middle-east and the world.
I am *so glad* that my family and I have no worries about where this is going because our eternity is in Christ’s hands and the worst this world can do to us is to kill us. My is that we live in Him such that He reach all of the people in our sphere of influence before we are taken home whether by death or rapture. BUT what is really neat is that we have grown in urgency and cast ourselves in dependence on Him to do this work through us, He is actually doing it! (We are amazed and *blessed* at How He we see Him moving, and we are *so grateful* to be used of Him!!! I pray this is happening more and more with fellow believers all over the world!)
I thought this article had some relativity to what you are discussing Don. http://johnmcternansinsights.blogspot.com/2010/08/elamiran-in-latter-days.html
Thanks, that was a very thought provoking article.
I can not agree that Russia is not in a military position to fulfill the Gog/Magog prophecy of Ezekiel 38-39. The prophecy also suggests at the time of this invasion peace negotiations are underway as evidenced by the Western powers questioning the intentions of Russia as member of the Quartet for Peace. Russia just recently carried out a large Airborne exercise in central Russia including several thousand paratroopers. In addition they have purchased over 2,000 inflatable decoys to mask military movements under the watchful eye of Western satellites. The prophecy also does not indicate Israel is at peace, it suggests that they are slumbering while their enemies are gaining the upperhand, the hebrew word “betach” used in describing Israel dwelling safely has dual meaning, which also denotes carelessness, false confidence, and false security.
Israel is currently exhibiting an air of false confidence and carelessness in the current peace process and security agreements with the West to defend the Jewish State against an Iranian nuclear weapon. The “unwalled villages” being the target of Russia and the vast coaltion to come is a reference to the settlements in the north, not the cities of central Israel protected by the security fence. The Prophet Ezekiel identifies this distinction in naming the cities later in Ezekiel 39:9. My analysis suggests that there presently is nothing preventing this invasion from taking place other than the Lord God compelling them to come against his people Israel.
Many assume that Israel must hold vast amounts of wealth to attract the invasion force of Gog/Magog, yet Israel is already vastly wealthy without additional energy contracts or resources as some suppose would attract them. Russia at this time is experiencing a great calamity in wildfires depleting their current wheat and grain resources. Most Russians of age are familiar with famine during the Soviet era, when soldiers were stealing potatoes to eat. The threat of famine is a very real motivation factor for war, the ripe fields of northern Israel the now supply Europe with their bounty would without a doubt appeal greatly to starving invaders. Thus the reference to cattle and goods. As we examine the scriptures you will notice that the Russian leader identifies the object of his desire as cattle and goods in Ezekiel 38:12. The following verse Ezekiel 38:13 we find the Western leaders implying additional spoils such as silver and gold along with the cattle and goods or agricultural crops, including fruits and vegatables. I believe that we can conclude that at the time of this invasion, Russia is experiencing a famine or substantial inflationary rise in prices for food products. The added accusation by the leaders of the West represented by the U.S., E.U., and the capitalist Saudia Arabia and U.A.E. identify their own intentions in dealing with Israel, to subsequently rape them of all their resources including their own land. I believe the Lord God will bring Russia and the rest of the confederation against Israel because of significant inflation or severe lack of food.
Several thousand paratroopers and inflatable decoys does not make for the mighty army of Ezekiel 38. The Russian army might get boots for those in their ragtag Army first.
The prophecy also says Israel is living in security with none to make them afraid that certainly is not the conditions in Israel today.
believe me there is no false confidence in Israel about this current peace process. How many times have they been through this? They have to play the charade but they know the routine.
There is nothing preventing this invasion from taking place? How about Israel’s nukes and the nukes of the US? Why is is that no Arab countries around Israel are mentioned in those that come with Gog when we know they would if Russia came down today?
I do not deny that they will come for food among other things but Russia needs a splendidly attired army first. Also Russia is just having a bad year for wheat but they have plenty of money to buy flood so they are not as desperate as you seem to think.
Your analysis of the whole prophecy is quite flawed.
Russia, Iran, and China are the chief weapon suppliers to all the enemies of Israel and the United States. Russia has vastly improved their military stature in reengaging their strategic bomber patrols as well as nuclear sub patrols being visible by several N.A.T.O. members. Russia has expanded their naval reach and mobile forces significantly. There is no doubt that the Bear is back, and getting rather hungry after a long hibernation. While some would say that Ezekiel ommits several Arab neighbors of Israel in the coalition of Gog/Magog I will again have to disagree with this conclusion. It should be obvious that if Sudan, Libya and many other African nations are included in this invasion force that surely they will cross through Egyptian territory. The Northern leg of the invasion force appears to assemble in the Plain of Bashan opposite the Golan Heights in southern Syria. Damascus is the current transhipment point for weapons to Hezbollah and Hamas as well as the terrorist hub for the region. I believe the earthquake recorded in Ezekiel 38:19-20 will find its epicenter in the Plain of Bashan near Damascus. Though Israel will shake fiercly reducing the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa mosque to rubble and dust, the epicenter could not be located there or none would survive. Jordan naturally with their heavy Palestinian population will be forced to either join or see the extinction of the Hashemite rule under a wave of terrorist attacks. The same threat is also guaranteed against Egypt. Why Ezekiel ommited the immediate neighbors of Israel is not clear, yet bands mentioned in Ezekiel 38:22 is easily identified as armed militias or combatants, such as Hamas and Hezbollah. Perhaps even the Prophet Ezekiel believed we would use common sense when identifying the clear leadership in the region and their influence. The supposed outer ring of nations currently control the destiny of the inner ring of nations, Iran and Syria control Hamas, Hezbollah, and all of Lebanon.
The Earthquake of Ezekiel 38:19-20 will also fulfill Isaiah 17 in reducing Damascus into a ruinous heap.
The European Union depends heavily on Russian energy sources, the United States currently has backdoor trade agreements with Iran in excess of 700 Billion dollars. The United States can presently only engage an enemy of reduced capability, for instance, you would never see the U.S. engage in conflict with China or Russia. Russia will no doubt make clear to the Western powers at the time of this invasion, that if nuclear weapons are threatened against Moscow or any of their coalition partners, they will reply in kind. Nuclear weapons are not a deterrent against a determined enemy that supposedly has nothing to lose. The weakness of the West to address the threat of Tehran having the bomb only increases their resolve to expand their influence and arm accordingly. The Prophet Ezekiel also alludes to this in Ezekiel 38:7 while addressing the Russian leader: Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them.
Even Putin has said it will take over a decade to rebuild the Russian army. Subs and bombers do not make for a mighty army invading Israel.
What you are ignoring in your analysis that the nearby Arab states will come with Russia is the Psalm 83 war where they are defeated and the result may be a much greater Israel in control of those lands. Thus, that is why Israel is living in security with none to make them afraid at the time of the Gog invasion.
I think Damascus will be destroyed by Israeli nukes because they did or were about to launch WMD on Israel.
You obviously do not have a clue about America’s military capabilities. We do not desire a war with anyone, but today we could defeat Russia or China in short order and they know it which is why they have plans underway to build up their military. But, you have to realize that Rome was not built in a day. Russia still has a 70’s era conventional army. They could not even take Israel with their conventional army today. Your at least a decade too soon on this invasion but you have to try to make it fit your fig tree conjecture. However, Bible prophecy does not fit conjecture it fits God’s timing and world realities.
The concept of a Greater Israel clashes against the truth of scripture. Joel 3:2 identifies clearly that the Land of Israel will continue to be partitioned even leading up to the time of the Battle of Armegeddon. The reference made by many to allude to the IDF being an exceedingly great army as identified in Ezekiel 37:10 is incorrect and clarified in the following verse being identified as the whole House of Israel or the entire nation much like found in Exodus 12:51. A modern Psalm 83 application or theory if realized would not bring security or peace, it would increase instability on a much larger scale. Israel would not have the manpower to maintain a military presence in these nations and occupy them, the citizens of these countries would also immediately claim refugee status much like the Palestinians. Terrorism would increase expedentially, Israeli resources would be stretched thin. The International community would no doubt call for an immediate cessation to conflict and for Israel to return the Land to the Arab/Islamic enemies. The current debacle we are now in with the Palestinian/Israeli conflict would pale in comparison if the content portrayed by Bill Salus in Isralestine was truly realized.
Thanks be to God, it is only a theory, or better yet a well written fable.
Russia is stronger than you might think, the Western analysis that Russia is a rusted incapable military or relic of the Cold War is indeed ignorant to say the least, Russia has used its vast energy resources and Gazprom to fund a swift military upgrade. They are prepared to fulfill their prophetic destiny as declared by the Prophet Ezekiel. The current economic conditions across the globe, as well as the depletion of global food supplies identify clearly that the events of the Tribulation are right around the corner, not a decade from now. I am sure Russia would like us all to believe their military is in tatters, surely China would also want the same, yet even Secretary Gates is clearly warning of both nations preparing for conflict in substantial defense spending.
I frankly believe that Psalm 83 being a prayer for divine intervention against the many enemies arrayed against Israel will find fulfillment in the Battle of Gog/Magog of Ezekiel 38-39.
The Land given to Israel goes beyond the Psalm 83 nations so even a greater Israel would see a parted land, besides Joel could simply be talking about what did happen in history. However, I do not say it has to happen as in “Isralestine” either.
We do not really know what may happen to bring the security for Israel. I suggest that there will be a world war against Islam or a civil war within Islam or more likely both before the Ezekiel war. I also suggest that Israel and all these nearby nations will be absorbed into the revived Roman Empire and it will be much like it was in the days of Jesus. Thus, Israel will get its security from Rome before the Gog war.
Gates is talking about if they keep on course with their weapons development programs. Russia is in no position to move into the Middle East. Seems you claim a lot of wishful thinking here but the world dwells in present world realities. Russia is rapidly increasing its nuclear capabilities today because it knows its conventional capabilities are weak.
Don, Thank you for allowing me to spill my two cents regarding the matter.
I think Psalm 83 is exactly what it says. It names the tribes and Russia and Iran are not among them.
Just so you know Don, Iran and Russia have developed torpedo and missile technology that the U.S. nor N.A.T.O. have anything in their inventory to counter against. That has been readily admitted by Pentagon sources.
They have to be able to get them in range first and Russia is not looking to start a nuclear war with the United States so that just leaves Iran. We have many many weapons for which Iran has no defense.
Frank, I agree with you brother, it seems some of us who call ourselves Christians are much like the Prophet Jonah, angry because the Lord God will not immediately wipe out all the enemies of Israel. We must also realize that the Lord God is not willing that any should perish, we as Christians should not be rejoicing over the death of anyone, we should be in prayer and fasting seeking that many will come to repentance and salvation only found in the blood atonement of Yeshua. The Lord God will not hold us unaccountable for such conduct, we are to be ambassadors of light, bearing the Good News not placing our hope in the destruction of nations and people. May the Lord God have mercy on us.
What exactly are you agreeing with? No Christian rejoices over the death of anyone but sometimes death of some is quite necessary for the sake of the living. What would you do with Hitler and the Nazis pat them on the head and say you ought not be killing Jews and do nothing to stop them? The leaders of Iran are killing Christians and they will kill Jews if we do nothing. Frank was teaching Christian pacifism. Is that what you are agreeing with?
I do not endorse any form of pacifism, I am a Gulf War combat veteran, and there is no glory in war, what I am suggesting however is that some in Christendom have endorsed the idea that God plays favorites, God is no respector of persons. In fact during the Gog/Magog invasion the United States will find itself a recipient of fire from heaven for our carelessness in compelling Israel to divide the Land and give the inheritance of Jacob to their enemies. We the United States remain the chief proponent in defiance against the Lord God and we will suffer accordingly for our rebellion. So while some may find solace in the coming destruction of Iran, Russia, and many others, perhaps they might consider that we too will experience judgement from the Lord God. To further compromise the security of Israel in land concessions and compell them to abandon strategic territory in the name of a false peace, who then is the real enemy, one that greets you with a sword, or the one that shakes your hand, embraces you, and plunges the knife in your back? The United States presently under these conditions is the greatest of the enemies of Israel, it is unfortunate that the Israeli leadership does not see this clearly for themselves. Obama is seeking to secure a reelection by exploiting Israel, for this we will pay a heavy price.
God obviously is on the side of those who fear Him. So he does play favorites with people and nations. Your saying that “God is not respecter of persons” is taken out of context Peter was talking about salvation. God offers salvation to people in all nations.
You also do not know that the US will be a recipient of fire from heaven in the Gog/Magog war. You are reading into the text. But I do not deny that the US will be judged, in fact, I think we are already being judged. I also know that all nations will be judged in the future.
For all your rhetoric the US is till the best friend Israel has on earth. Also, don’t confuse what most Americans believe with our present President. By the way, how can Israel see anything clearly while in unbelief?
Rodney Dezarn; Thank You brother. Don says I teach ‘christian pacifism’. Well, I do believe a christian should protect his family form DIRECT personal attacks, but I do not believe a christian should be involved with the ways of the world, which are politics, war etc. Though I am not a Calvinist, nor do I believe that salvation can be lost, but I do agree with Charles Haddon Spurgeon who said, “When I learn of a soldier who has become a Christian, my soul leaps for joy. But when I learn that a Christian has become a soldier, my spirit mourns.”
Did Jesus tell the Roman military that believed in Him to leave the military. NO.
If there were no Christian soldiers all soldiers would be unbelievers and we would certainly be under tyranny.
I fail to see the difference between what your saying and rather confused pacifism. You think Christian should protect their family from direct personal attacks but cannot see that war is a direct personal attack to your family as well to other families in a nation.
If you do not think Christians should not be involved in the governments of the world how in the world can you be salt and light and occupy?
Your kind of thinking leads to Christian defeat. For example, since you will not be involved in politics you abrogate all the laws of the land to be made by unbelievers. So soon you cannot even mention the name of Jesus in public or even have Bible studies in your own homes but you will have to pay taxes to support abortion and homosexuals spouses.
Frank Ebell, your comments on this Blog are an enigma.
Frank’s spirit is with Christ, who stated that his knigdom is not of this world. Being sucked into the minutia of politics and every other “system” that man has made is playing into Satan’s hand. Why is Washington so corrupt and will be until the end of this age… because it’s a system of man, doomed as it were like the Israelites wont for an earthly King.
God decides the fate of nations and to call for the attack on a nation that has not attacked us is not in the keeping of any of Jesus’ words, to say otherwise is false doctrine and is serpent speak. More dominionist drivel from those that seem to think God needs help in his ruling of the universe. Ludicrous.
Iran is attacking us. Iran has been killing our men through proxies for decades. Iran supported terrorists killed thousands of people just in the last year. So just let them get nuclear weapons so they can destroy Israel and kill millions like they boast that they will. When Iran gets nuclear weapons and launches an EMP over the United States and 200 million Americans die because of lack of food and water say that we should not have taken action when it was in our power to do something about it. Ludicrous!
There is nothing dominionist about standing against evil and tyranny to protect human life and Christians. With your mindset and the mindset of Frank we would be under fascism and you would not even have heard the Gospel. You do not realize that God sends nations with human armies to destroy nations that would destroy others on the earth.
I do understand this, and that God uses Nations sometimes as judgement against others. Or that God hardens the hearts of leaders for this cause. But I find it sad that Christians will endorse the attack of an apostate nation by another apostate nation like there is a “good” side in all this. This naive view dismisses the fact that America continues in conflicts for geographic position for resources and economic power and label it “nation building” and “democracy”
Until Christians realize that they are being played like a harp from hell in this fake “pay-triot” paradigm, we will continue to fund endless wars in far away lands for corporate interest. Finally your knowledge of Chinese/Russian
and Iranian capabilities seems to be stuck in the last decade. Iran’s supersonic anti-ship missiles are positioned NOW in the main narrow shipping lane that transports a majority of the oil out of the gulf, and yes US aircraft carriers too. Chinese modernized military and new allies, will match us. And yes I’m former Army.
Dave,
What’s the point of telling me that you are former Army as if that means something? That does not make you an expert. You are talking to someone that worked for the military for two decades in top secret arenas and weapons programs, but I do not suggest to you that my experience makes me more informed.
Christians do not run this world or this nation. So if Christians realize they are being played like a harp it will not change what is about to happen in the world. We are heading for a confrontation with Iran no matter what America does because Iran will bring the war to us when they can. If you knew the theology of the leaders of Iran you would know that Israel and America cannot exist unless they convert to Islam. Americans are not about to convert so war with Iran is inevitable.
I am quite aware of the Iranian capabilities but you do not seem to be aware that we do have weapons to deal with them. But, you have brought up a point and that is my point as well in saying we need to deal with Iran now. That points is that Russia and China are rapidly giving Iran greater military capacity, so if we do not deal with Iran now we will find ourselves in a world war when we get sucked into a Sunni vs Shia or Israel vs Islam Middle East conflict because of Iran’s plan to take over much of the Middle East.
Maybe the US will go isolationist like you think we ought, but doing that is not going to stop anti-Christian Islamic expansionism in the world.
Don, I suppose the point was to say that I’m not completely un-versed in military matters. To your point regarding Russia, China and Iran; There will always be a boogy man. If Korea falls we are unsafe. If Vietnam falls it will set off a domino effect. If we don’t strike Kadaffi we’re in danger. If Nicuragua falls to the Sandnistas we will see the spread of communism in central America. If Sadam stays in power it makes the region unstable. If we don’t stay in Afgahnistan for a decade the Taliban will be a scourge upon the earth. My point is war is a racket. We fund our enemies only to fight them, giving justification for our actions with the results maintaining the status quo. Korea and Vietnam still became commies. Central America is still filled with revolutionaries. Iraq now has a nice Shiite majority in power and Afgahnistan has no true mission except the endless counter insurgency operations that once we leave….we are going to have to leave some time…..goes back to the people herding goats and the same tribal conflicts that have been there before America was formed.
Why Iran? Why don’t we bomb N. Korea. Why not bomb Pakistan where we already have mercenary drones firing missiles? Then what, Venezeula for associating with Iran, then Bolivia? It’s madness. I’m not in support of the Iranian regime or the Mullah’s demagogary using a false God as their power, but I’m not naive enough to ignore why it is that the Mullah’s are in power or what led to the revolution. It’s one thing if we learned from our foriegn policy mistakes but they’re not mistakes. This is planned for the creation of the global police state in which we are the chief of police.
I guess what gets me Don is that your site is filled with some good info but I’m surprised that you conform to this dialectical process that has been set by the powers and principalities. This whole left right paradigm in American politics that keeps the sheep distracted is a ruse. Funny how a man like Obama who has Marxist leanings can embody the same policies as the Facist Bush. The end game is the same. Your comment that we would live under a Facist regime and never have been given the gospel rimgs true in some sense. We’re already there. I’m under no illusion that couldn’t have been worse or that it’s not getting worse, only that Obama not striking is not going make us safer, he’s part of the same overriding system and answers
to others. Either way God will have his message spread regardless of the games man plays.
I’ve meant no dissrespect in our comunications, and
hope you’ve not been offended by my views. We agree Christ is the way and the truth and the life.
Dave,
If you read one of my other more recent posts you would know that I think America has been missing the open door given to it by God to shape the world for the better ever since the second world war.
We were the only world power after world war two but we play a loser with Stalin, Mao, North Korea, Vietnam and the latest Middle East wars. All of these evils we could have overcome without much effort. We could have easily won the Korean war and the Vietnam war but we limited ourselves. We could have avoided the Gulf wars if we would have given Sadam a unconventional ultimatum. In none of these conflicts have we ever used our full might. We could have stopped all nuclear proliferation in the 1940’s had we really believed in our cause.
Instead American leaders did not even believe in the American way and did not really push the cause that we fought for in the second world war. Instead we took the easy way out and just let a hundred million people be slaughtered by the communists, most of them Christians. The errors of Russia and China enabled the Islamic Fascists to rise as a threat to the world.
America took the easy way out each time we were tried and just kicked the can down the road while our enemies grow ever more powerful. Instead of following God and doing what is right, we took the way of the mental disease that thinks that global governance will solve all of man’s problems without God. We never should have taken that path but we did, so now we are stuck with a real evil world that the idealists never envisioned.
You talk about the dialectical process that controls American thought but had America done what she ought to have done 60 years ago it would be a mute point. So now we reap the consequences of our non-actions. 60 years of making all the wrong decisions created present reality and it cannot change by wishful thinking. That reality is that there will be a world war with Islam in spite of Obama saying that we will never be at war with Islam. We certainly will be at war with Islam and we are at war with Islam and we will continue be at war with Islam until all physical hostilities toward those that will not submit to Allah is removed from Islam.
It blows my mind that Christians that think we should do nothing also buy into conspiracy theories and always blame America for the problems in the world. The fact of the matter is that the Western world order has never controlled large areas of the world and that is why even Antichrist will not bring lasting peace to the world. Kingdoms will rise against kingdoms and nations against nations until the end. That is the world order decreed by God until the Prince of peace comes and rules. Libertarians give far too much credit to a few international bankers supposedly under the control of Satan. The world is a much more complex place.
Also, you imply that all these things are set into place by principalities and powers. That alone should have you take note of where this is heading if we do not oppose evil. Nevertheless, God is in control of those principalities and powers and they can do nothing without His permission.
So yes, a great chastisement is coming on America and much of the world. We can be realistic about the evils existing or we can try to find Illuminati scapegoats and blame them and miss the whole point. That point is that the whole free world is now in a war against radical ideologies that are both anti-American and anti-Christ.
Don’t get so lost in the Right-Left politics that worked together to get us here that you lose site of the future that we will reap if we allow Iran to keep spreading their deadly poison.
You should realize that terrorists are now setting up bases in Latin America and Chavez is working with Iran to start a nuclear program there. Anyone who thinks allowing Iran to develop nukes is not going to impact America is once again denying reality.
By the way, I think we will soon be at war with N. Korea as well, because we never dealt with that evil and allowed a cultist nation that is still at war with us to develop nukes. We have been our own worst enemy by limiting our power to conform to the idealism of the world elite that will see no evil. The end result is more and more nations daring to oppose us because they are reasonably sure that we will never use our full might against them.
I have no problem with you giving your views if they are on topic and do not resort to personal attacks like some do. I do hope that people realize that I do not have the time to answer every comment or point expressed on this Blog that I disagree with. What I really want is for others to express their own views on these topics. That is how we all learn.