I believe there are seven separate subdivisions within in the Gentile Church Age and that Jesus identifies each era by a certain church type. Jesus has messages to each of them in the seven letters to the seven churches in Revelation Chapters 2 and 3. I also believe the letters had meanings to  seven historical literal churches to whom the letters were given and the prophecy also gives instruction to all in Christianity.

But for the purpose of this post I will reflect on the prophetic applications where this Bible prophecy in Revelation is of Jesus dealing with the church types that identify with Him throughout the Church Age on earth. One might even call the letters Book of Acts 2. Seven letters that speak about the Church through time by Jesus before the prophetic message even happened. (The instruction in sequence to the seven churches is how I believe it did play out in history.)

The seven churches in Revelation are Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamos, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea. I give a full explanations of these churches  in Chapters 2 and 3 of my Revelation commentary. In short, the seven churches and church ages are:

• Ephesus – The apostolic church
• Smyrna – The persecuted church
• Pergamos – The church goes into harlotry with the world
• Thyatria – The reign of the Papacy in this harlotry
• Sardis – Protestantism separates from Rome into denominations but nearly dies as it questions the infallibility of the Bible and becomes occupied by many living in almost dead religion and ritual
• Philadelphia – The missionary orientated church preaches the good news to the world and looks for the Lord’s soon coming
• Laodicea – The rich lukewarm apathetic churches of modern times living like life on earth today is their main hope and thus living in false security.

I firmly believe that the church type that represents most Christianity today is Laodicea. It is true that Thyatria, Sardis and Philadelphia still represent many Christians on earth today but we saw them peak and many in these churches are rapidly moving toward the Laodicean example.

For example, many Catholics (identified with Thyatria) have abandoned the teachings of Catholicism for doing what is right in their own eyes. For many the religion is nothing more than a ritual, tradition or a way to appease their own sin guilt. They largely pick and choose which Catholic doctrines they will follow and reject whatever does not suit there fancy.

A Second example, is the liberal mainstream old protestant denominations (Sardis). These churches are declining in members and dying because they just go through rituals and usually teach some social gospel. Many members that were going to these churches were joining the Bible churches but now they most often they are joining with the Laodicean seeker and prosperity mega churches.

The next example is the Philadelphia missionary Bible churches. They are still alive and well, but I think its best days have now peaked.  Most here are now focusing on the soon return of Jesus Christ and for good reason. Jesus implied they would in his letter to them in Revelation.

Laodicea is the real church age that we  live in today and it is the last church age before Jesus returns. I wrote an article on the Laodicean age a couple of years ago and it still applies. Although I think Laodicea is the church era of today I do not think that the whole Church will be identified with it, but there is a rapid influx from the other three latter day church types into an obvious Laodicean Christianity. They are largely the seeker friendly and the emergent churches that are conforming to the world, watering down doctrine and introducing deceptions in order to attract large numbers of questionable believers.

Since many people love twelve steps to almost everything these days. I will give a twelve step program into apathetic Laodicea. The hope is that you take heed and do not travel down that stairway because Jesus barfs up this latter day lukewarm church.

12 steps that will bring Christians to Laodicea

1. Choosing to reject fellowship with a local body of Bible believers
2. Become too lazy and undisciplined to read the Bible on your own on a regular basis
3. Not taking regular time to get alone to communicate with God (rote prayer does not count)
4. Choosing to attend a church where the gospel of salvation is not taught and there is no equipping or maturing of the saints
5. Believing that emotional trips or obsessions over disputed doctrines brings about Christian maturity (even Bible prophecy)
6. Doing nothing for nobody – not giving offerings for the work of Christ on earth
7. Believing those who claim that God must give you riches on earth if you follow their teachings
8. Believing that you can have a better relationship with God through certain mystical techniques
9. Choosing not to learn from more mature Christians
10. Allowing evil to reign on earth because you think you should be doing nothing to protect others
11. Never talking about or displaying your Christian beliefs to others
12. Expecting any interfaith 12 step program to actually bring you to spiritual maturity

I think the ELCA vote to allow active homosexuals to become ministers was finally the straw that broke the camel’s back  for me. I will no longer identify with what is today called the Evangelical movement.

Lets face it Satan first came in with his wolves in sheep’s clothing and so corrupted the mainline denominations with the doctrines of humanism that most true Christian left. Now Satan is well on his way of accomplishing the very same thing with those that identified with the evangelicals  that came out of those near dead Sardis mainline churches.

In reality I think over half of people who call themselves evangelicals today have gone off track and are now running on the road to Laodicea. Their worldviews are not from biblical doctrine because they are playing down Bible doctrine. They love to buy into the psychologies and philosophies of the age and more and more are going off into spiritualism influenced by leaders who knowingly or unknowingly are  in the occult. It is getting so bad that you often cannot tell the difference between the teachings and practices of post-modern evangelicals, World Faith heretics and certain demonic cults.

Even many churches that were once well known as Bible churches have drunk the post-modern Kool-Aid. Are you aware of the conflicts within the Nazarene’s, Baptists, EFree’s, etc. on this issues? It seems to me that many leaders have totally lost their Christian minds or at least their Christian worldview reflects that they do not have the mind of Christ.

Christians that believe the Bible is the only infallible reliable guide for Christian faith and practice and believe that truths taught in the Bible are absolute and that they cannot be twisted so they can be politically correct with the world, cannot continue to identify with these leaders calling themselves “evangelicals”.

So here is my quandary. What do we whom once called ourselves evangelicals now call ourselves? The post-modern evangelicals have split the movement and have now made the term “evangelical” meaningless. Worse yet, these people are now becoming the majority among those who call themselves “Evangelicals.

I have not yet heard a good title to identify those you cannot abide the redefining of Christianity from evangelicals. Some might say just call yourself a Bible believing Christian but that really does not work because they also claim to be be Bible believing Christians even though they twist the words to mean what they want or they pick and chose what part of the Bible they want to believe to support humanistic wordviews.

• Calling oneself a Christian is not the answer since 90 percent of people that identify with Christianity seem to be Christians in name only.
• Saying you believe in Christ does not mean much these days since many believe in some concept of Christ make in their own image.
• Saying your a born again Christian has lost its meaning since most who claim to be born again Christians can not even explain the spiritual concept. Some just think being born again just means they were once baptized in a church.  There is no spiritual change in most to indicate that were ever born again in a spiritual rebirth or that the Holy Spirit indwells them.
• If you call yourself one who believes in the absolute fundamental beliefs of the Christian faith you will be labeled a  fundamentalist and you mightl also be labeled  a simpleton who checks your brain at the door. Of course that is not true at all but it might not be wise to try to revive a vehicle that Christians already allowed the world to crash and burn.
• We could call ourselves “the elect” but many that are baptized as infants in liberal churches also claim they are the elect.
• We can say we are Wheaties, breakfast of champions, but the tares will claim we had a false start.

I know that if we do come up with a new name that Satan will soon try to ruin it. However, I think he may run out of time this time around. I see churches of many different denomination splitting into two camps. I think it will break down this way. There will be those that stay on solid biblical ground and there will be those who stand on the shaky ground of  humanism, spiritualism, subjective theories of men and emotionalism.

So what do we call the people who stand on solid biblical doctrine and truth compared to the others? As far as I am concerned they can keep their “Evangelical” title if they want because they already corrupted that word. We know the correct name for these would be more like “Laodicean Harlot’s for Jesus” but if they are the Harlots for Jesus who are we? I might suggest that we are the Bride and Body of Christ through bethrothal to the King (The two will become one flesh – This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.)

I guess we could call ourselves the Body of Christ but pseudo Christians today also claim to be part of the Body of Christ although they have no blood relationship with Jesus. So I guess that title is not exclusive enough.

What to do? Who knows? I am waiting for someone like you to come up with something. We need a one or two word description that fits and that will catch on with true faithful Christians. Like perhaps “Latter Day Philadelphians“.

What say you?

An interesting article was written by Jan Markell of Olive Tree Ministries. She talks about the 2009 leadership conference or summit lead by Bill Hybel’s Willow Creek Association. Two of the guest speakers for this “leadership” conference will be Tony Blair and Rock Star Bono.

Why would any Christian go to a Christian leadership conference to hear from Tony Blair and Bono? They both are all-paths pseudo Christian heretics. Seems to me that Bill Hybels job was to first dumb down Christianity with his seeker friendly program and then steer the pseudo Christians under his influence into the end time one world religion Harlot of Bible prophecy described in Revelation chapter 17.

Notice that Rick Warren is a board member of the Tony Blair’s Faith Foundation. Warren is even more influential than Hybels in the seeker movement. Also be aware that Tony Blair’s recent conversion to Catholicism was not just some coincidence it was for darn good reason. At some point that church will head this world harlot religion.  With Tony Blair and Bono as speakers this Willow Creek leadership conference ought to be named “The making of a Harlot.

If you count all the churches under the influence of Hybels Creeker Network and Rick Warren’s Purpose Driven Movement we are talking about half of the so called evangelical churches in America!  So, in just two decades these two people destroyed the meaning of the term “evangelical Christian”.

So go ahead and continue to tell me that God is behind Rick Warren and Bill Hybels but anyone with an ounce of Christian discernment can see that these men are wolves in sheep’s clothing.

The article clearly points out the issues and gives links where you can get additional information. I hope you will read it.

When Evangelicals Dine with the Wicked

Here is a good follow-up article on Hybels and Warren’s agenda to sell religion as the hope of the world.

While some Christians still get upset enough with government to contract their congressmen and talk about throwing the bums out of office, it seems that many Christians do nothing about the wolves in sheep’s clothing that have infiltrated their own churches.

The threat comes from postmodern leaders with its redefining of Christianity and the Bible. The threat is also known as the Emergent Church. The Emergent Movement now threatens to subvert once evangelical denominations. The Emergent movement is now a major emerging threat in the Nazarene denomination and is also a big threat in Baptists churches and others.

If you do not know what the big deal is about from this Emergent threat click on the link above and read the articles from Eric Bager and find out. Here is also a fair article that generally explains the Emergent Church movement. Not everything about being relevant with the postmodern people of our culture is bad but we must never compromise on the essentials. The Bible must be the final authority for our faith and practice.

Just to point out one example how postmodernism subtly infects the church, I read an article today by Dave Welch on a conservative Christian website about how the Church should hate. The article was talking about the Church hating the same things that God hates. I agree with what Welch said in the article and I am sure Welch does not believe in emergent teaching at all. However, in the article where it quotes what God hates instead of using the Bible, Welch quotes from “The Message”. The Message might be the most postmodern relevant bad paraphrase of the Bible in existence today but it certainly is not the Bible. Are not the six things that God hates clear enough in a real translation that one has to resort to quoting from bad paraphrases of the Bible? Why would an astute Christian even quote from “The Message” anyway? Eugene Peterson the author of “The Message” has no discernment to interpret the Bible because if he had any biblical discernment he would not have endorsed the cover of the heretical postmodern book called “The Shack” ?

Seems to me that the great apostasy is well underway in our church buildings. The wolves in sheep’s clothing are standing in the pulpits and the sheep sitting in the pews do not have enough biblical knowledge to discern the difference between the true gospel and what these men preach. They just follow and approve of everything their pastors do.  After all, these are men of G–O–D.

One example of postmodernism in the seeker movement is Saddleback’s Rick Warren.  I guess he has not been wishy washy enough on all his national platform opportunities already, now he is now going to speak at a Muslim convention to forty thousand Muslims. Now, that would be a great opportunity for a real Christian to give the gospel of Jesus Christ but if Rick Warren gives the gospel at that Muslim convention I will repent and send his church a large donation. I wish he would do that but you know that he won’t, so why is he called America’s pastor? Does he reflect the American Church? Why are Christians even following him? What is our great commission? Seems that most Christians no longer know. What would Paul do (WWPD)? If Paul got the opportunity to speak to Muslims and the world would he talk about what Warren will?  Warren will probably speak on interfaith cooperation and how we all worship the same God. If that is true then why did millions of Christians die for the  gospel of Christ?

If the salt has lost its savior it is good for nothing but to be trampled down and that is why hate speech laws will be passed that will trample down the church in America. “Christians” can only blame themselves.

We need to throw the bums out of our churches and Christian leadership first. Then maybe we will deserve a better government. Don’t expect any grass roots movement to change America if we cannot even get the pew sitters in our churches to install biblical pastors that will preach the gospel of Christ.

One might wonder how this Emergent Church is reaching postmodern young people that they say their programs are designed for? It is not! Churches have lost their youth even with all their postmodern youth pastors and programs. Two thirds of teenagers in Britian now say they do not believe in God. What does that say about how the Church is reaching people with the gospel and the future of Christianity?

It is not that bad in America yet but all polls say it is rapidly heading in that direction. In fact, the majority of church youth that claim to be born again Christians lose their faith by the time they graduate from college. Any astute Christian should know that it is a sin for parents to willing send their kids to our government run schools where they will certainly be brainwashed with godless philosophies of humanistic and demonically inspired men. So why do most pastors not even realize this and teach this to their congregations and suggest alternatives? Could it be because they have become part of the problem with their own emerging postmodern moral relativism?

Seems Rick Warren was not against California’s Proposition 8 and homosexual marriage after all. Quoted below is the exact words Rick Warren made on “Larry King Live”.  Also in the same article that I quote and link to at the bottom of this post is Joseph Farah’s appropriate view of this wishy-washy pastor.

Why is Rick Warren always in the news? If he was actually preaching the gospel of Christ he would not get on the worldly media. He is CFR member for a reason and he has a Global Peace Plan because it conforms with the CFR globalist socialistic agenda. Rick Warren is yoked together with some very powerful globalists unbelievers and their own purpose driven lives wants global governance. What Rich Warren says to the world implies religious pluralism and a form of universalism that includes aspects of religious dominionism. He  is not presenting the gospel of Christ to the world.

Everything Rick Warren says is a compromise with the world instead of presenting the gospel of salvation to the world. I find this to be true ranging across the spectrum from Rick Warren’s purpose driven seeker friendly gospel lite movement to his many media opportunities that never clearly presents the gospel of Christ.

If a Christian pastor cannot stand up for clear teachings of their faith he certainly should not be standing in your church pulpit! The only reason I think Rich Warren is standing at Saddleback Church is that the church membership has been made in his image. By the way, while I am at it, here is an example of how Rick Warren grows his Church.

It is amazing to me that a “Evangelical” Christian leader would actually apologize to homosexual leaders because some of them might think he took the biblical stand against homosexual perversion and marriage perversion.

Also read this article that quotes what Rick Warren actually said to his church on Proposition 8. Apparently Rick Warren was even spining the truth to Larry King about what he actually said.

Need another opinion? Here is Dr. Norman L. Geisler’s postion on Rick Warren and the Gay Marriage issue.

I think America’s spiritual condition is reflected in the choice of leaders that Amercians put into power and that is doubly true in its churches.

America’s wishy-washy pastors

(Rick Warren on Larry King Live)

“You know, Larry, there was a story within a story that never got told,” he said. “In the first place, I am not an anti-gay or anti-gay marriage activist. I never have been, never will be. During the whole Proposition 8 thing, I never once went to a meeting, never once issued a statement, never – never once even gave an endorsement in the two years Prop 8 was going. The week before the – the vote, somebody in my church said, Pastor Rick, what – what do you think about this? And I sent a note to my own members that said, I actually believe that marriage is – really should be defined, that that definition should be – say between a man and a woman.

“And then all of a sudden out of it, they made me, you know, something that I really wasn’t,” Warren continued. “And I actually – there were a number of things that were put out. I wrote to all my gay friends – the leaders that I knew – and actually apologized to them. That never got out. There were some things said that – you know, everybody should have 10 percent grace when they say public statements. And I was asked a question that made it sound like I equated gay marriage with pedophilia or incest, which I absolutely do not believe. And I actually announced that. All of the criticism came from people that didn’t know me. Not a single criticism came from any gay leader who knows me and knows that for years, we’ve been working together on AIDS issues and all these other things.”

(Joseph Farah)

What are we to make of such mealy-mouthed, wishy-washy, namby-pamby hokum?

It’s a great illustration of America’s most prominent church leader equivocating and backtracking and saying almost nothing coherent so that he will offend no one.

Full article

Seems almost all of the popular Christian books today are still about “me“. But, for a Christian it should not be about me it should be about thee and Thee. It is time Christians departed from me centered churches and teaching in sake of Thee centered Churches and teaching.

The ‘Me’ Centered Church

The church today has gotten away from its purpose and identity as laid out in Scripture. Again, we do well to remember:

A local church is a group of baptized believers organized together to meet for the equipping of the saints for their ministry; for provoking one another to love and good works; for exhortation; for the exercise of spiritual gifts and the observance of the ordinances (Eph. 4:11-12; Heb. 10:24-25; 1 Cor. 11:18)[8]

The church is not for “seekers” or for “Me centered” people. It is for disciples and “He centered” people. The church can and should reach out to a dying world and that means engaging the culture with the truth that Jesus is the only Way, Truth and Life (Jn 14:6). It also means becoming more like Him daily, walking in faith and His strength. Paul sums this up well when he says:

I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.Galatians 2:20

At the end of the day we are all simply beggars telling other beggars where we found bread. Let us bear witness then to this fact in our Culture so that we can change the “seeker sensitive” church of ‘me,’ back to the Bible based church of He.

Matt Smith
Pastor, Barabbas Road Church

Full article

According to Julia Duin evangelicals are fleeing their churches and not attending on Sunday. There are probably several things going on here besides Duin not counting some non denominational churches that are growing. Has anyone considered that maybe half of the people in the seeker friendly churches that are now so prominent across America were never Christians in the first place? They were brought in by hype and great expectation for a purpose driven life but they never believed or were given the gospel of Salvation that defines a Christian.

Let me make a few observations. I occasionally attended a large mega church in St Louis and the pastor realized that even through he was having alter calls and scores of people were emotionally coming to the alter each Sunday for salvation or renewal the church was no longer growing. He realized the people were going out the back door as fast as they went in the front door. He soon changed to follow the format of Willow Creek Church and adopted the seeker sensitive church growth model. He no longer gave alter calls and did not present a dynamic gospel message on Sundays but mainly presented an entertainment packed gospel light service that would appeal to young professionals. Now almost two decades later the Church still has about the same attendance numbers as it had before he switched to the Creeker format but the people in attendance today are almost a completely different membership. In others words in 15 or so years there has been a ninety percent turnover in the membership. He replaced a church of fervent believers with all Baby Boomer Evangelicals and seekers.

This has been going on in many seeker sensitive churches across the country. They cater to the unbelievers and lose their core Church membership. They pad their church board with those who will agree with the pastor’s seeker model and drive out the leadership that wish to retain biblical teaching on Sunday. In addition, the seekers are not going to the mid week services to learn the gospel of salvation like the leadership had hoped. So the seekers stick around for a little while and also leave out the back door seldom to be seen again

Even Bill Hybells the father of the Creeker Movement of churches has recently admitted that the seeker sensitive church growth model has been a failure. He said it did not produce mature Christians. He and others are now rethinking everything and probably looking for a new gimmick to bring people in and keep them in attendance. The whole Emergent Church movement is doing likewise.

The problem is that the Body of Christ is not grown through gimmicks and entertainment services. It is grown through conversion to Jesus Christ through hearing and believing the gospel and this does not happen unless the gospel is given and the Holy Spirit draws them (not Elvis impersonators). Gimmicks of the church might get people to attend on Sundays for awhile but that wears off and most soon leave.

Also, the local church spiritual health is not based on numbers. It is based on Spirit indwelt Christians with gifts of the Spirit that are using these gifts for the good of the whole Body. The Body does not even have to be in Sunday attendance for that to happen. The Church needs to work beyond the four walls that many assembly in on Sunday. Much too often those who do attend each Sunday think that have done their Christian service and their calling because they attended the Sunday gathering service. No. They have just attended a Sunday gathering service. If you want to do what Christians were called to do you need to be helping to fulfill the great commission using your gifts to build up the Body of Christ in order for the Body of Christ (the Church) to actually fulfill the great commission. Grow the membership in the Body of Christ and the Church will be attending and it will be doing its job. This does not happen just on Sunday but every day of the week and that job will never primarily be done under the roofs of church building.

The buildings are primarily there for the use of the Church not for the use of unbelievers. I have encountered many Bible believing Christians that will not attend a Church building because of what they feel goes on under these roofs and we all know that their arguments are often valid. So the solution might be for pastors to start looking more at third world models where the Church is actually living out Christianity daily rather than the latest Madison Ave westernized two hour Sunday media event model.

I believe if all the big Church buildings in America disappeared the Church in America would be much more effective and dynamic being a Church that goes out into the streets.

Sunday Morning, Staying Home

According to Julia Duin, a religion reporter for the Washington Times, more and more evangelicals are in fact fleeing their churches. Indeed, Ms. Duin regards church-quitting, at least among evangelicals, as nothing less than an epidemic. The problem, in her view, is not in the souls of the church quitters but in the character of the churches they choose to leave. “Something,” she observes, “is not right with . . . evangelical church life.”

The faults she points to–relying on her own reporting and survey data–are many. They are surprising, too, running counter to the stereotype of evangelicals bonding happily in their churches. She reports, among other things: a lack of a feeling of community among church members, inducing loneliness and boredom; church teaching that fails to go beyond the basics of the faith or to reach members grappling with suffering or unanswered prayer; pastors who are either out of touch with their parishioners or themselves unhappy, or who fail to shepherd their flocks, or who are caught up in scandal, or who try to control the lives of church members in a high-handed way. She claims that many churches have “inefficient leadership models” and that many, preoccupied with the care of families, neglect single people.

According to Ms. Duin, churches dedicated to making disciples will “do well in this era of dumbed-down, purpose-driven, seeker-friendly Christianity.” But is that really true? From a theological perspective, there is no guarantee that churches will prosper as they attempt to make disciples–if we judge prosperity by church membership alone. A church might conscientiously carry out its biblical tasks and yet, by measures of popularity, do poorly in this world. Such a church would not be doing right if it adjusted its mission for the sake of higher attendance records.

Full article

This article give some interesting insights. Rich Warren is apparently inviting certain critics to visit his purpose driven conferences probably in an attempt to tone down the criticism of him. He may also be genuinely trying to understand why he has critics in the Church (let’s hope so).

Bob DeWaay was invited and he challenged Rick Warren to preach Christ. By that, he meant that Warren should preach specific scriptural Revelation about Jesus Christ in public rather than just General revelation about God. I hope Rick Warren takes Bob’s advise and uses his huge platform to preach the gospel of salvation.

One of the perplexing things is that Warren’s Church really does have orthodox theology but that does not help those who listen to Warren and do not attend the biblical programs at Saddleback. When Warren has been before a world audience in the past his message has been too wishing washy. His public messages and his interviews are generally absent of the gospel.

I think one thing that Warren needs to understand is that millions read his works and follow his words. They do not go to Saddleback Church classes to find the Orthodoxy they retain. So Warren with his huge world exposure needs to put more salt and light in His message to those outside of his Church no matter the cost to his worldly popularity.

Of course there are other problems in his programs but clearly preaching the absolute truths of the gospel to the world would be a huge step forward for Rick Warren. If he really wants to unite the Church and not further divide it he will preach the gospel clearly and not cloak it behind subjective self improvement philosophies

When Billy Graham preached to the world their was no doubt that he was preaching the gospel of salvation. People with ears to hear listened and many found Christ. Rick Warren has much the same potential to reach millions in this world. If he continues with has mainly social gospel message he might even make the world a better place for awhile but if it offers no salvation message what does it profit people if they gain a better world for a season but still lose their own soul?

My Visit to Ask Rick Warren to Preach Christ – CWN

My Visit to Ask Rick Warren to Preach Christ

By Bob DeWaay

In May, one of the pastors at Saddleback Church invited me to attend a Purpose Driven conference—at Saddleback’s expense. Their only caveat was that I say nothing until the end, at which time I would be able to comment about why I disagree with the Purpose Driven movement. I declined on the grounds that I had already studied the movement and had no need to hear more from its proponents. When I saw the lineup of speakers I realized that it would have been exasperating to listen for hours to what I have already rejected. Rick Warren’s chief of staff e-mailed back and offered to have me come only on Thursday in order to talk to Warren in person. Since the Bible says that we should be ready to give a reason for our hope in the gospel (1Peter 3:15) I decided to go.

Doug Giles has it right. We need a Detergent Church like Spic-and-Span or Mister Clean and not the wimpy postmodern Emergent Church with their wimpy Loving Bubbles that claim to clean without any personal effort and that does not even work. The postmodern church programs have become much like a Laurence Welk rerun where everyone-is-going-to have-good-time waltzing around Christian doctrines.

AD: The Detergent Church (c) – Guest – May 27, 08

I went on to edumicate my inquirer that I prefer a Detergent Church to an emergent church. Yes sir, I think what we need is a “movement” that would purge the skid mark that sin has left on man’s soul and our society rather than a group of nerdy Christians trying to be Ryan Seacrest.

Yep, a Detergent Church is the type of church that flicks my switch. As far as I’m concerned, a “church” that does not alter culture in a weighty way isn’t worth its salt-no matter how “successful” it may be momentarily. And seeing that our culture is getting more bizarre by the flippin’ day I’d say that whatever the church is doing to be au courant just ain’t cutting it.
Here’s my laundry list (to become a book) regarding how the “called out ones” can be the holy hellfire Detergent Church they’re ’spose to be. You might want to put on a cup . . .

1. Get men who dig being rowdy back in the pulpit.
2. Could we have some sound doctrine, por favor?
3. Preach scary sermons (at least every fourth one).
4. Get rid of 99.9% of “Christian” TV and sappy Christian music.
5. Quit trying to be relevant and instead become prophetic contrarians, I’m talking contra mundus, mama!
6. Put a 10-year moratorium on “God wants you rich” sermons (yeah, that’s what we need to hear nowadays, you morons, more sermons about money, money, money!).
7. Embrace apologetics and shun shallow faith.
8. Evangelize like it’s 1999.
9. Push lazy Christians to get a life or join a Satanic Church.
10. Demand that if a Christian gets involved in the arts that their “craft” must scream excellence and not excrement.

Allow me to elaborate, my little ones . . .

One can easily justify why they conform to be like the world. The hard thing is not conforming and still getting the message of salvation out to the lost. They are not going to find the message of salvation through your worldly coolness but they may through your heavenly warmness.

The Church Of The Cool And Groovy (A Worldy Christian View) – CWN

It’s no secret that churches are using gimmicks to attract the masses. Much like all of the rock bands I worked with, the cooler and hipper you are, the more you can attract a crowd. This is prevalent in so many churches, and it usually starts in the youth groups. They’re raised to be cool, listen to cool music and dress cool. I actually had a youth pastor say to me, “We want to show the unsaved that we can be as cool and have as much fun as the world, ” to which I replied, “I spent most of my youth and life learning how to be cool, but when I came to Jesus I realized that when he said crucify the flesh and don’t be like the world he meant it”. Of course, the first scripture that is usually brought up in the defense of this foolishness is to “be all things to all men”. Well, if you want to follow that to its logical progression, then I can suggest a church program and some entertainment to attract sex addicts. Get the point? Mature Christians shouldn’t be interested in proving anything to the world except Christ crucified. I don’t recall Paul dressing like a gladiator and putting on sport shows to attract the crowds, and then sneaking the gospel in on them once he had their attention. I’m sure if it was such a great idea, the Lord would have given it to Paul. God has done perfectly well calling those who have ears to hear into the flock.

I do not know why Willow Creek would allow this heretic to speak at their church. I take that back I think I do known why.

I challenge anyone who reads the Bible as written to tell me that this man has not redefined the scriptures to take away absolutes truths and replace them with stupid rationalizations. Tell me that he is not corrupting Christian youth with his heretical teaching. It is time that Christians quit making apogees for this very destructive heretic. His teachings are doing great harm to Christianity especially to the youth of the church.

So why is it that Christians in your church are mislead from his books and there is no warning about this wolf in sheep’s clothing and others emergent leaders like him coming from your pastor? If heretics are not refuted with sound doctrine why will the next generation in your church believe in any Christian absolutes?

There are so many warped views in this article about Brian Mclaren statements that It would take a small book to refute the nonsense. I will just say his views on the second coming must come from heretical dominionism or some social gospel because they sure are not founded on any truth taught in the scriptures.

Mclaren redefines scripture to conform to what he wants to believe. We were warned that these people would come in the last days and the warning was given for darn good reason. Have nothing to do with these emerging heretics lest you find yourself misled.

Baptist Press – Lessen focus on eternity, McLaren says at Willow Creek student ministries conference – News with a Christian Perspective

SOUTH BARRINGTON, Ill. (BP)–The emphasis Christians place on the traditional Christian doctrines of hell and the second coming of Jesus inhibits believers from living effective lives of service in this world, according to speaker and author Brian McLaren

McLaren explained his views April 9-10 at Willow Creek Community Church in South Barrington, Ill., as a featured speaker during the Willow Creek Association’s annual Shift student ministries conference

The orthodox understanding that Jesus will return at a future date and forcefully conquer all His enemies also needs rethinking, according to McLaren.

“This eschatological understanding of a violent second coming leads us to believe (as we’ve said before) that in the end, even God finds it impossible to fix the world apart from violence and coercion; no one should be surprised when those shaped by this theology behave accordingly,” McLaren wrote.

The book of Revelation does not actually teach that there will be a new heaven and a new earth, he wrote, but that a new way of living is possible within this universe if humans will follow Jesus’ example.

This news letter properly discerns the seeker movement.

clipped from www.ericbarger.com Many churches are counting on the entertainment factor to carry them because they are in fact void of spiritual depth and power. No matter how well executed or presented, “special effects”, trite skits or “positive” sermonettes are just so much drivel without the supernatural hand of God upon them. Perhaps, in the natural, it is simply easier to attract and then appease the carnality of men instead of making the uncomfortable stands which God’s word implores us to make. If we lead our congregations to focus on shallow, eternally vacant and theologically errant gimmicks like the “Forty Days of Purpose” then praying, fasting, studying and seeking God for a bona fide supernatural encounter such as the early Church regularly experienced will seem far less risky – or important. God help us!

Here is a very good summery of the latest going on with many of the “Christian” leaders that seem to be running their own heavenly elevator. Next stop the bottom floor.

clipped from www.letusreason.org We welcome new leaders and recognize them for their service to Christ. Today there are many new leaders, but there is a shortage of biblically well trained leaders who are aware of the issues and have answers to them. There are just as many new leaders serving an agenda, themselves and money than Christ. Postmodernism, pluralism, relativism, interfaith and occult ideas and practices have reached so deep into the church that we can’t seem to see through the murky waters we are now swimming in. Transformation, transition and change are words that are becoming quite familiar to us in practice. Something is “emerging” and very quickly I might add that we need to identify what it actually is. Unity and tolerance would are part of the agenda that is now taking place.Here are just a few examples:

Good article on the emasculating of men in the Church. He points out:

“All too often the pastoral “role model” in evangelical circles mirrors that “Simpson’s” character, the Rev. Love Joy. Our pastors are either quaint, odd, harmless pushovers, or they are slick metrosexual types who can cry at the drop of a dime – literally – but have absolutely no courage to stand up against real evil or teach the unequivocal truth with authority.

They’ve suppressed godly male assertiveness, opting instead to “be nice.” They have abdicated their calling to “speak the truth” in the interest of political correctness. And they have decided that manipulating people with emotional self-help books and anecdotal sermonizing is better for the bottom line than training and teaching the men in their congregations to be leaders and warriors for Christ. And as a result, the evangelical church is suffering from a dearth of real men”.

I agree bring on the Marines, get the whimps out of leadership position and men will start going to church again. However, keep the woman running the churches and watch it become a girl club. Maybe then a seeker church movement will start for men seeking women.

clipped from http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59962 The typical U.S. congregation draws an adult crowd that’s 61 percent female and 39 percent male. This gender gap shows up in all age categories. On any given Sunday there are 13 million more adult women than men in America’s churches. This Sunday almost 25 percent of married, churchgoing women will worship without their husbands. Midweek activities often draw 70 to 80 percent female participants. As many as 90 percent of the boys who are being raised in church will abandon it by their 20th birthday. Many of them will never return. More than 90 percent of American men believe in God, and five out of six call themselves Christians. But only two out of six attend church on any given Sunday. The average man accepts the reality of Jesus Christ, but fails to see any value in going to church

I think this excellent article hits the nail on the head. The mega church movement makes too many godless compromises that focus on the felt needs of the people. They should be putting the focus on Christ. For without a spiritual rebirth from Jesus man can do nothing for God in this world.

They think people will come to Christ through worldly methodologies instead of hearing the word of God and believing.

clipped from www.worldnetdaily.com The tension between private and public faith that is created by the challenges of secularism has forced too many Christians in the “mega-church” movement to make unnecessary and godless compromises. In too many of the populist churches the message has shifted from a God-in-Christ-centeredness to a focus on people, their “emotions” and their “felt needs.” It’s as though Oprah Winfrey has become the patron saint of the mega-church establishment. Feel-good preachers spend a gazillion dollars promoting the myth that Jesus’ sole purpose in coming to this earth was to ensure our happiness, our health, our wealth and our good looks, and that a “spiritual how-to guide” can be had in exchange for a simple contribution.