Comments on: Two prophets become focus of entire world prior to Antichrist

By: Don Koenig

Don Koenig — Fri, 16 Feb 2018 04:15:23 +0000

In reply to Craig P..

Hi Craig,

While the two prophets are giving their testimony on an international platform I think the 144.000 are proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom at a local level. They will bring the greater fulfillment of the commission Jesus gave in Mathew chapter 10. I explain why in my Revelation commentary.

http://www.thepropheticyears.com/The%20book%20of%20Revelation/Revelation%20chap%207.HTM

By: Craig P.

Craig P. — Thu, 15 Feb 2018 22:25:20 +0000

Hi,

Don – Maybe you can shed some light on this question(s)…

What is the relationship between the two prophets and the 144,000 (I am presuming that the two prophets and the 144,000 sealed witnesses are conducting their ministries about the same time period)?

Thanks, blessings.

By: Don Koenig

Don Koenig — Tue, 13 Feb 2018 23:45:41 +0000

In reply to David G.

David,

I am not going to argue that all here or recreate the wheel. I think this short article explains the orthodox Christian position about these tribes.

https://www.gotquestions.org/lost-tribes-Israel.html

This explains why Israelite’s are known as Jews.

https://georgesjournal.net/2013/01/04/when-did-the-hebrews-or-israelites-become-known-as-jews/

Israelite’s were identified as Jews because they practiced Judaism not because they were descendants of Judah. Jesus would not have told His apostles that they would rule over the twelve tribes of Israel if they did not represent the tribes. Not all in present day Israel are descendants of the southern tribes.

People may agree or disagree but this rabbit trail is really not what this post is about.

By: David G

David G — Tue, 13 Feb 2018 21:53:42 +0000

Don, respectfully… all I’m doing is referencing scripture, particularly Genesis 48 and 49 which tie in to Moses’ later blessing of birthright in Deut 33. I’m not familiar with any British Israel theories… they could literally be anywhere/everywhere in the world these thousands of years later. Though the adoption of Joseph’s boys (Ephraim and Manasseh) by Jacob and the specific blessings he places upon them certainly should not be overlooked as Ephraim inherited Joseph’s promise and Manasseh took Levi’s position to maintain the 12 houses of Jacob, called Israel. (Revelation 7)

After Solomon, the Northern 10 Tribes (called Israel or Ephraim in scripture) were led by Jeroboam of the Tribe of Ephraim (1 Kings 11:26), this is not a coincidence. Ephraim, Joseph’s son, the son adopted and blessed by Jacob with the birthright promise became King of the Northern 10 tribes.

While the Southern Kingdom (Judah, Benjamin and Levi) was led by a Rehoboam of the house of Judah who received the scepter promise of the kingship.

The Northern tribe of Israel/Ephraim was taken by the Assyrians after their abominations, and there is no evidence that they substantively returned, to the contrary, scripture tells us the area was populated by Babylonians, Cutha, Avva, Hammath and Sepharvaim. (2 Kings 17:24-27)

The Southern tribe of Judah was taken to Babylon and then were sent back by Cyrus to build the 2nd temple. The Tribes of Judah (and Benjamin and Levi) returned. I’m not familiar with the scriptural evidence for tribes other than the Kingdom of Judah having returned from the dispersion.

I’d also never heard or read in scripture any of the apostles were from particular tribes, aside from Paul of course who was from Benjamin (also the Kingdom of Judah). If you have any good study sources on that I’d be interested. In scripture there is no point where all 12 tribes have become crammed into the term “Jews”… this is my point, it is not scriptural. Curious, are you familiar with any “Jew” claiming to descend from Dan, Asher, Naphtali, Simeon, Rueben, Gad, etc? Most self identifying Jews I’ve heard believe they are descendants of Judah. Intriguing topic, I’m genuinely curious for contrary observations?

The New Testament does indicate that there are Jews, and also that there are the lost sheep of Israel, and that there are of course the gentiles. The lost sheep of Israel are the 10 tribes that did not return from Assyria.

Scripturally the nation of Israel (not just Judah) is the Olive Tree (Jeremiah 11:16) and when Paul (Romans 11) discusses the ingrafting of the genitiles into that Olive Tree, it is a scripturally significant metaphor.

Prophetically, when the times of the gentile is fulfilled, likely following the rapture, the prophecy of Ezekiel 37:16-17 and Romans 11:25 will come about, where Judah and Ephraim will be joined together again a full house restored in the hand of Jesus Christ. The 144,000 will be from every tribe of Israel (Rev 7:44), not just those of Judah.

Just saying, it’s legitimate scripture, it’s clear for anyone who cares to look at it and it’s not just one Tribe of the 12 that sprung from Jacob (plus God’s own Tribe of Levi).

All of Israel will be restored… Ezekiel promises it. Chapter 37, verse 16 and 17; an as of yet incomplete prophecy. The 144,000 will come from all the sons of Jacob (except Dan?), not just Judah, and at least 9 of those tribes were scattered among the nations (Deut 28), where they wait today to be rejoined in with their brothers who rightfully rule (the scepter promise…) a portion of the promised land today. It is of note though, it is prior to the Millennial Kingdom that the 144,000 are sealed. They seem to play a large part in evangelizing during the tribulation.

Judah the rightful king is in the promised land. Israel is not, they are still dispersed. And as you say regarding the coming approach of Jesus, the time of the gentile in-grafting seems to be coming to an end. All I’m saying is that scripturally, there are a lot of descendants of Jacob (about 144,000 of them) that will be sealed and busy during the tribulation and I don’t see Ezekiel 37:16-17 as a coincidence. Will this be something the Church will be on earth for? Probably not. That’s my take on it, scripturally.

By: Don Koenig

Don Koenig — Tue, 13 Feb 2018 19:59:33 +0000

In reply to David G.

David,

The Jews are the chosen people. You seem to be buying into British Israel conjectures not taught in scripture.

I think all Hebrews became known as Jews because many decades after the northern kingdom fell those in Judea were exiled to Babylon. There also were many from other tribes that moved to Judea because the Temple religion was there. When Jesus taught people in Israel the natives were identified as Jews. Not all were from the tribe of Judah. For example the 12 apostles came from 12 different tribes.

The New Testament makes it clear that there are now only Jews, Gentiles and the House of God. We know Paul was from the tribe of Benjamin but he identified with the Jews as did others.

Throughout Gentile history since the cross all from Israel were called Jews. Even all Israelite’s today call themselves Jews. There are many different tribes in many nations but people from those nations are usually called by a specific name. Israel identity now is Jews.

Having said that, God will make a distinction between the tribes for His millennial kingdom. The 144,000 from the twelve tribes are the fruit fruits of the kingdom. The twelve apostles will rule over the 12 tribes of Israel.

By: David G

David G — Tue, 13 Feb 2018 17:50:11 +0000

Don, yes sir – that was a part of my point. To us they are lost… it will be interesting to see how God reveals them and in-gathers them. My larger point was the inconsistent use of the term Jews vs Israel, above. The promised land is called “Israel” today, and that causes a lot of confusion to those who don’t understand the scepter and birthright promises. Prophetically, it makes a very big difference as to what is coming and what Jesus will do to combine the whole household of Jacob again as was under Solomon, before the kingdom broke and was dispersed.

You might be surprised how many people believe that the Jews are the only chosen people of God… leaving out the larger multitude of birth right (and 10 total tribes) that is Ephraim.

By: Don Fritts

Don Fritts — Tue, 13 Feb 2018 17:15:22 +0000

David ,
None of the 144,000 are lost , God knows who and where everyone is . There are many references to Israel and Judah as being seperate , no problem for God.

By: Mark

Mark — Tue, 13 Feb 2018 02:49:43 +0000

Don,

Great post that brings some detailed attention to the Two Witnesses I hadn’t realized.

I have a project I’m working on for unsaved loved ones. I’m putting together customized Rapture Letters and some individual prophecy pages, then will slide them into Dr. Chuck Missler’s booklet: The Rapture, then will mail the packet to them.

They have heard this all from me before but I believe time is short.

I will print this down and add it to the packet…I will add some other pages from your work as well. (Thanks)

I thought not waiting and sending them a pre-rapture letter (besides also leaving it) is a added articulate witness far past my capabilities. Also thinking about adding a witness statement to my Will just in case I go home before the Snatch!

I’m getting long in the tooth, but the path the world is hurtling on (compared to prophecy) leaves me looking up for a hole in the sky rather then one in the ground!

By: David G

David G — Tue, 13 Feb 2018 01:34:26 +0000

Many people confuse “Judah” with “Israel,” though Genesis 48 & 49 (and elsewhere in the OT) clearly seperates the two progeny of Jacob. The 144,000 will come out of the lost Northern tribes of Ephraim (Israel) and will be regathered with Judah in the promised land as per Ezekiel 37:16-17. The Jews are already regathering in the promised land, Ephraim must be identified and regathered too. I do not know how that will be accomplished all these years later with a lack of genealogy? Perhaps the 2 witnesses will play a role in this too? Or perhaps this new fad of genetic testing as with Ancester(dot)com will be used somehow as worldwide data bases are filled with genetic information. Should be interesting.

By: Brian Huggett

Brian Huggett — Mon, 12 Feb 2018 21:42:19 +0000

Like it Don… a more than probable scenario.