Perspectives on Trump and the Revelation 12 sign of Sept 23, 2017

I have to give President Trump credit. It took a lot of guts to withdraw from the Paris climate accords. I don’t think anyone else would have been so bold. The climate agreement has nothing to do with climate. It is all about global governance and wealth redistribution. The science behind global warming was always bogus. It is like the science of evolution. If you tell a lie often enough, and if you give jobs to only those that will promote the lie, the lie will be taught as truth. You cannot reason with those given over to a reprobate mind. Most in the world have already been programmed via the global indoctrination systems.

The climate accord implements carbon taxes that would cost Americans trillions of dollars. Now that Trumps says that we will not join this globalist wealth redistribution scheme, leftists are foaming at the mouth. Their top priority is to get Donald Trump out of office and get global government back on track.

Trump delayed the move of the US Embassy to Jerusalem for at least 6 months. I guess He thinks he can use it as leverage for a peace deal. The problem with that thinking is that Israel is not the problem. The Palestinians do not want peace with Israel. If other nations force the Palestinians into a peace deal, there may be a peace deal but there will be no peace for Israel.

The health care reform and tax cuts do not look promising this year. There are too many people in Congress that do not want Trump to succeed. At least sixty percent of them are hoping that somehow Trump will be replaced. It will probably now take an economic downturn to get any tax cuts through Congress.

A moron could figure out a better health system than can our government. The problem is that Congress is full of politicians who are paid off by the health lobby and who love government bureaucracy. Our health system is ridiculous. Providers charge people who pay cash three times more than insurance companies or government pays the providers. The insurance companies have such high deductibles that you might as well not have insurance at all for routine medical procedures.

The solution is simple. Make providers charge no more for cash customers than they can get from insurance or the government. Eliminate most of the existing bureaucracy and socialism, and the cost of medical procedures would get so low that most working people could pay cash for routine procedures. Then all that is needed is catastrophic insurance and a government subsidized sliding scale for the poor.

It looks like Congress is not going to allow significant funding to build a wall on the Mexican border, so I don’t see how that gets done. Back in 2006, when democrats where in control, Congress voted to build 700 miles of fencing. However, they never funded it. They appeased Americans by passing the bill but then reneged. Now Trump says there will be a wall, but congress says, “no way”. They will hope that Americans go back to sleep.

The recent terrorist attacks in the un-United Kingdom is more of the same that will lead Europe into a civil war and a police state. People are quite willing to give up their freedoms for security. France is already a police state. The leftist elites are counting on a fascist police state being the end result of terrorism. That is why they keep bringing in the terrorists. The travel ban by President Trump that hinders terrorists from coming into America was struck down by federal judges. This is now in the hands of the Supreme Court. We will soon find out if Gorsuch will vote with the sane or the reprobate minds.

For those not aware of it, the symbology mentioned in Revelation 12 appears in the heavens on Sept 23, 2017. I have spent a fair amount of time researching the claims. The sign is valid, but what people claim it means varies. There is plenty of conjecture. What is certain is that the portrait in the stars of heaven is not the fulfillment of the prophecy, it just displays what is being said in the prophecy. So, the appearance of this sign in heaven does not necessarily equate to it being fulfilled on the earth on that date.

Revelation 12 says:

And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2  And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3  And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4  And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5  And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6  And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

There appears a great sign in heaven, a woman (Israel) is ready to give birth and her child was “caught up” (harpazo) to God and His throne. That “caught up” (harpazo) is the same word used for the Rapture in 1Th 4:17. The only other time it is used is when Paul was “caught up” to the 3rd heaven in 2 Co 12:2-4.

Who is being caught up? Some say it is Jesus, but the narrative really does not fit Jesus. Jesus ascended to heaven. He was not snatched away to protect Him from the devouring dragon. The woman represents the nation of Israel and the red dragon with ten horns represents the satanic world system. Just like the two previous primary symbols, the child is not a lone person. The child represents a corporate body. Jesse Johnson explains that the man-child represents a nation. It is the nation who’s real home is in heaven. That nation will rule all other nations with a rod of iron (Rev 2 26-27). The corporate Church will be caught up to her heavenly home so that Satan cannot devour the Church during Satan’s rampage on earth. The man-child refers back to Isaiah 66:7-8:

Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.  Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

Notice that the passage says the child is born before the woman (Israel) even has birth pains. It proves that the Church will be taken up to heaven before the birth pains for Israel begin. Some Church fathers used Revelation 12:5 to prove a pretribulation Rapture.

This sign in heaven spoken about in Revelation 12 appears in the heavens on Sept 23, 2017. Does it mean that the Rapture will occur around that date? Some think so, I would not rule it out. Actually, the sign in heaven has already been in the heavens for about 6 months. On Sept 23, 2017, Jupiter moves out of the womb area of Virgo (the woman) so some think the woman on that date is giving birth to the nation that will be caught up. Actually, the sign remains in heaven until mid October so the Red Dragon could even appear after Sept 23. What this all means is pretty subjective stuff.

This Revelation 12 line up in the heaven has not occurred since around the birth of Christ. John was not talking about the occurrence on Sept 11, 3BC because John is being shown things that happen after the Church age. The woman in 3 BC gives birth to Venus (the morning star). Jesus is called the morning star. It probably was the date of Jesus’ birth. Here, around Sept 23, 2017, Virgo gives birth to Jupiter the king planet. The Church will be a nation of kings, so it might be a fitting sign for the Rapture and deification of the Church.

I do wonder where the red dragon is in heaven that seeks to devour the man-child that Israel births? Frankly, I think the portent lacks being a “great sign” without the red dragon. Some say it is still coming. They claim that it is planet X. That does not look likely for Sept 23, 2017 so I am not sure what to do with that?

The sign in heaven is not visible to people on the earth because the sun is in the sky when it appears. Some claim there will be a three-hour total eclipse caused by planet X and the sign in the heavens will become visible from earth.

Some say Planet X or a dwarf star is in an elliptical orbit with the sun and can’t usually be seen because it is behind the sun or very near the sun. They say the government knows about it, is preparing for it, and is covering it up. That seems pretty far-fetched to me but we will know by October.

I do think that some of what Revelation is talking about can be explained by a large body interacting with the earth. This same body might have caused the flood and some events around the time of Exodus. Perhaps there is a large body with a long orbit around the sun that interacts with the earth every couple of thousand years.

The sign probably portrays the Rapture of the Church. However, seeing the sign in heaven does not mean the Rapture will occur at that time. It just might be a sign for those watching that portrays that we have now entered the general season of its fulfillment. Remember, Jesus said that this day would not come upon the Church like a thief in the night but it would with others.

Some make the mistake of saying that the Feast of Trumpets is the day of the Rapture. That is not likely. The feast days are for Israel, not the Gentile Church. I find it hard to believe that the Rapture and the seven-year covenant that Israel agrees to occurs on the same day. The Rapture is more likely to occur on an anniversary of a date significant for the Church, like Resurrection Sunday or Pentecost.

I am surprised that the most well-known Bible prophecy teachers seem to be ignoring this. I do think that you should be aware of this sign. If signs in the heavens have meaning, and I think they do, this is too rare of an event for it not to have prophetic meaning. If you want to look into the heavenly sign on Sept 23, 2017 yourself, there is a ton of information on YouTube.

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Perspectives on Trump and the Revelation 12 sign of Sept 23, 2017 — 51 Comments

  1. Don,

    I mentioned the Sept. 23rd sign in a comment in your last post and your reply seemed to imply that you didn’t think there was much to this sign. It appears that maybe you have changed your mind on this?

  2. Hi Nathan,

    I thought the sign in the heavens occurring meant something, but I was not sure what that was.

    I have done a lot of checking this out in the last week or two. I changed my view that the man child was Jesus. I now think it is talking about the Church. That changes the equation. I now think the sign and what is said in Revelation 12 about the man child is referring to the Rapture of the Church. I obviously have not changed my view that the Rapture is not likely to occur on Sept 23, 2017.

  3. It is also interesting that there will be a complete eclipse of the sun across the US from the north west to the south east on august 21st. It will happen again in 7 years going the other way from south west to north east. It will cross at Cairo Mo. Interesting.

    In First Thessalonians 5:3 it talks about when they shall say peace and safety, sudden destruction shall come upon them, as travail upon a woman with child, and they shall not escape. Verse 4, But Ye brethren are not in darkness as that day should overtake you as a thief.

    Just a few more tid bits to add. I think every one is afraid to make any predictions as there have been far to many of those before that turned out false. I am no different, But I think we should be looking for His coming as it has a purifying effect on us.

  4. Thank you for another good post. I have read something about the date before, but did not realize the significance or rarity of the event. I often read what the writers of the Omegaletter.com website have to say. One of them, Pete Garcia, I think, has written a time or two recently of how dates all seem to come together this year. I am just an old man, but would love to see the Rapture happen. In other words, I hope the “signs of the times” which may be coming together mean a rapture sooner rather than later. Slightly off topic, here is an interesting take on the Mark of the Beast that I had not heard before. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jfbh2l8usw&feature=youtu.be I

  5. Don,

    Wonderful article. I agree with everything said. It is difficult sometimes to not be totally discouraged by the evil in this world in general, and our government in particular. I ask the Lord almost daily to strengthen my faith, courage, and wisdom.I have suffered from anxiety and panic attacks for the past 4 years. I won’t bore you or your readers with my story, except to give God the glory He deserves. When my doctor wanted me to take an antidepressant, I knew it was not for me. (I do understand that my decision is not what is best for everyone) The Lord walked me through the worst time of my life and His Word continues to shape me daily.

    Your explanation of the symbology of Revelation 12 is not only informative but encouraging. It may not be the date of the rapture but neither is it an accident. Thanks be to our Lord and may His message strengthen and encourage us all. Thank you Don for the time you spend researching and writing.

  6. Don, great article. I was a bit skeptical of the Sept 23 sign, but I am definitely starting to believe there is something to this. Especially given the fact that it hasn’t happened since around Jesus’ birth. Plus you’ve got the solar eclipse in August and the blood moon tetrads that have occurred. Not sure if those are just coincidental. Also, this would mean your timeline is spot on. Question though, does this sign occur again in the future? What a great time to be alive.

  7. Hi Steve,

    Those that ran the star projection program said that the Revelation 12 sign in heaven does not occur again for at least a thousand years.

  8. Hmm interesting. Maybe it could have some relevance to the end of the millennial kingdom when Satan is relased again?

  9. Steve,

    I think they would have checked that out. Those I heard say the sign will not occur again but I doubt if they ran the program for more than a few thousand years into the future. Some say the previous two claimed times it was seen in history do not literally fulfill the Revelation 12 sign either for one reason or another. So I guess the exact fulfillment is somewhat subjectively determined.

  10. Was there any good pictures of these star alignments? I still do not know how people take like 3 or four dots and say hey that looks like a woman, man, goat, lion, etc.

  11. People seem to be all over the place regarding September 23rd. Some say it’s significant some say it’s meaningless. I think the child being the church actually makes a lot of sense for many reasons like you mentioned Don. If this event truly only happened at the birth of Jesus, and then now, then I also would think it means something. We should expect events to begin to unfold if we truly do only have a couple decades till the return of Christ. I guess we will have to wait and see what happens.

  12. I just find that the arguments for coincidence are less believeble. I could see maybe the sign being given specifically to John as symbolic and to shroud the meaning in mystery until the appointed time that it can be deciphered. But the constellations have been used for millennia and are recognized by God himself in the Bible.

    Furthermore, many other prophecies have come true or are coming into play right now. Israel, Revived Rome/world govt, Gog/Magog, upheaval, violence etc.

  13. Hi Jeremy,

    This is all taken from a computer program that projects the stars in sky through time. The Virgo, Leo, etc images were associated with those star groups since ancient times. I suppose that is the way they kept tract of heavenly signs.

    There are those that claim the gospel was written in the stars before the scriptures were given. Dr. D. James Kennedy took some heat after he taught that. There were many that taught that long before Kennedy.

  14. Jim,

    I think one of the big deals not mentioned in that link is that Jupiter is bouncing around in the womb area of Virgo for 9 1/2 months before it exits on Sept 23rd. This is the normal gestation period for a baby. Jupiter’s retrograde movements and alignments with Regulus also are a factor.

  15. Why is it that so many Americans, even those who would consider themselves thinking Christians, have this ‘Planet America’ mentality? HOW can an eclipse over the US be construed as prophetic? Jerusalem is the centre of God’s world. 🙁

    I agree that Pentecost has the closest association with the Church and as the Church was an intercalation both the beginning and end of the Church could be seen in this one feast.

  16. Hi Brian,

    I agree that the eclipses over the United Statues are not a prophetic sign. I said the same thing about the so called blood moons. None of this is based on anything said in the Bible.

  17. I really underestimated the left and the establishment. I thought once Trump was president many would see that his policies would benefit America. Not going to happen. They really are reprobate and have no ability to reason.

    I had to look up why some prophecy teachers equated the Feast of Trumpets with the Rapture. I just parroted that statement in a comment I made without knowing why. I hate it when people do that. It’s too detailed to relate here and I don’t know if the biblical lessons are valid but it’s on the internet for those interested.

  18. A very nice explanation of the September 23rd sign, thanks Don.

    Aldo about Trump, I know it seems he means well and I respect your opinion about him, but check this video out… this is Trump’s meeting with the pope that a lot of people have missed one small but huge thing… https://youtu.be/7qdCzYv2wbE if you watch it till the end you might think different of him, maybe not.

  19. Greetings Electors,

    This is an awesome article and hopeful too! God bless you Don.

    When an eclipse happens in ordinary time’s it’s no big deal but when it happens during an appointed feast day of the Lord it’s significant. It’s for a sign, a signal. Heaven is intersecting w/ earthly history. Something exceptional is about to happen.

    The Hebrew word for feast is mo’ed which also means assembly or gathering, to betrothe, set times and appointments. It’s definitely a good time to be looking up and to be cleansing our hearts in the Lord.

    Elect.

  20. Tibs,

    The first link was broke so I took it out.

    What do you mean think different of Trump? Nobody here believes Trump is going to lead people to Christ. I never thought Trump was a Christian. He believes in the theology of The Secret. Trump is a worldly person with new age thinking. That is why he gravitates toward Word of Faith prosperity teachers. The alternative that we had in the last election was someone that would already be persecuting Christians.

    I think this fellow is reading a lot into what Trump did. Accusing trump of have an antichrist spirit is meaningless. All in the world that are not born of the Holy Spirit have an antichrist spirit.

  21. Hi Nathan,

    Very good link. I think if Johnathan Cahn or Mark Blitz came up with the Revelation 12 conjecture, Jan Markell would be taking an entirely different position. She would have it all over her programs. Just like she did with the nonsense in their books. Now, if a messianic Jew or Hebrew roots person wrote a book on this, she probably would be gushing over it.

    I see this fellow (Greg) that has that website has up a link to Markell’s site. I hope she does not have a link to him because if she reads what he wrote she will pull it. It happened to me when I criticized Johnathan Cahn’s unbiblical conjectures.

  22. Bill,

    That “might” be true about certain signs but only if the signs happen over Israel. Eclipses over the United States have nothing to do with Bible prophecy. The spring and fall feast days are divine appointments for Israel not the Church. I do not know why Christians cannot get that through their head. Believing God will fulfill the feasts to the Church is just another form of Replacement Theology.

  23. I think the demonically inspired left has decided if they couldn’t have their president, there wouldn’t be any president. They are doing everything they can to try and stop President Trump from doing anything and they are doing everything to get him removed. Fortunately he has been able to get some things done through executive order, but the big things like health insurance and tax reform may be derailed for who knows how long. They hate Trumps tweets because he actually tells the truth, something you’ll never hear from a lifelong politician. What’s going on with this ridiculous investigation is incredible. Look at the criminality of so many in the Obama administration and the criminality with Clinton. Nothing ever happened to anyone. The insanity and brainwashing of the left is reminiscent of what happened to the people who followed Hitler. What I find really odd is that if President Trump is removed somehow, Pence steps in and why would the demonically inspired left want that. I guess they think he’s establishment and can easily be swayed or be malleable. Another thing that boggles my mind are those who want to find or see dirt on President Trump and they say they are Christians. They still don’t get what would have happened had Clinton gotten into office. Be thankful to God that didn’t happen. I’m not well versed enough to make a lot of comment on Revelation 12 and Sept. 23., so I won’t except to say I believe all will happen in the good Lord’s time frame. All I can do is be watchful and ready.

  24. “Another thing that boggles my mind are those who want to find or see dirt on President Trump and they say they are Christians.” I am neither Democrat or Republican, my trust is in God and Jesus Christ only. All politicians have dirt on them, they’re all puppets of the elites. They all have roles to fulfill, what you see it’s just a play, they make you believe he’s all great, but this is all just to get your trust. What boggles my mind is that some Christians actually look up to Trump, instead to God and His Son or His word.

  25. Tibs,

    Trump was not a politician and so far he is not a puppet of the elite. Christians should get behind leaders that promote Christianity and Christian values.

  26. President Trump is most definitely a flawed man, as I think everyone would agree, but again, the alternative would have been a disaster. Why give aide to the enemy in trying to look for further flaws?

  27. Don,

    I really hope so, to be honest I do like some things I see from him, I am just being vigilant.

    Adriana,
    yes it makes sense, all I’m saying is it could all be a play. Keep your eyes open.

    Peace to both of you.

  28. Tibbs, Hi,

    How does looking to a president to lead America back to it’s constitutional foundation and rule of law diminish trust in God, His Son or His Word?

    Maybe we’re praying and trusting God to lead the man to wise decisions for his family of fellow Americans. Maybe. e.g. Paris Agreement.

    Adriana,
    Good summary of the political situation.

  29. Hi Caitlin

    I’m not sure you’re understanding what I wrote, re-read my post, then get back to me. I’ll reply when you understand.

  30. I welcome anyone’s correction here if I am missing something , Revelation chapter 11 clearly talks about the 2 witnesses , , is Chapter 12 concerning events AFTER the 2 witnesses are resurrected and caught up to Heaven. It is my understanding the two witnesses are on earth during the first half of the 7 year tribulation. The witnesses are caught up and Great Tribulation begins ( the last 3 1/2 years ). If chapter 12 is concerning events after Chapter 11 , the sign of the woman in Revelation 12 has to be relevant to the beginning of the last 3 1/2 years. After the sign of The Woman war breaks out in heaven and Michael casts Satan down to earth. I am trying to understand the sequence of events in the order which they occur .Your comments and correction are most welcome .

  31. Don Frits,

    I was actually thinking the same thing. I saw on one of the YouTube Sept 23 videos where they explained that some things happen simultaneously and only appear chronological. Not sure if that’s true. Also, maybe the sign is just that. A warning of the coming fulfillments and allusion to the Rapture, before the witnesses and Jacob’s trouble etc?

  32. Don and Steve,

    All the chapters in Revelation are not to be taken sequentially, some like chapter 12 are parenthetical. You might read my Revelation Commentary.

  33. This was a great article that I have read many times. I do agree with your explanation and I also read the article by Jesse Johnson.
    I was hoping you could elaborate on the man child. Is it at all possible that this man child could be the birth of the complete body of Christ with all its members? When the rapture happens – doesn’t Christ come to the earthly realm and return to heaven with all its members? Couldn’t Christ’s first birth be earthly and this second birth be spiritual?
    I guess it is the word man that is bothering me. You refer to the corporate Church as female in your article.

  34. Hi Donni,

    Some are saying that it portrays the birth of the spiritual body of Christ. I would be cautious about that.

    The Church is female in the New Testament because Christ is betrothed to her and marries her. The man child could be a reference back to Isaiah 66:7-8 and is speaking about a nation that comes out of Israel. In the link in the article Jesse Johnson explains all that.

  35. I’ve been watching Scott Clarke videos and I like him. In one of them he said blood moons are signs for Israel and solar eclipses are signs for gentile nations. What? I went digging. It’s Jewish tradition and taught by the rabbis of God’s coming judgement on gentile nations. Solar eclipses are common so I only looked at two NASA documented as rare.
    3/20/15 the total solar eclipse at the North Pole encompassed Northern Europe but all of Europe saw at least a partial eclipse.
    8/21/17 the path of totality cuts through the United States but according to Solar and Lunar Eclipses next 10 years (https://wwwtimeanddate.com/eclipselist.html) the eclipse will be seen West in Europe, North/East Asia, North/West Africa, North America, Much of South America, Pacific, Atlantic, and Arctic.
    Something or nothing? It’s a different way of looking at it. I don’t know.

  36. Caitlin,

    Solar eclipses happen somewhere on earth every time the moon gets between the sun and the earth. They mean nothing more than that.

  37. Hi Don,
    Bible teachers can make a case for anything they put their minds to. I wasn’t sure the solar eclipse theory was truly a Jewish tradition because internet research isn’t 100% reliable. Oh well pooh, I tried.
    Two facts I knew for sure. Solar eclipses are common and I wasn’t going to sway you. lol

  38. “I do wonder where the red dragon is in heaven that seeks to devour the man-child that Israel births?”

    Take a look at this https://www.google.com/search?q=red+dragon+september+23+2017&rlz=1C1CHZL_enUS739US739&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwjXhMma2f3UAhULxYMKHcktDbEQ_AUIBigB&biw=1536&bih=735#imgrc=aWRJMCFoHywfEM:
    If you go on Google Sky right now – Constellations – Virgo , then on top right corner click on Infrared and you’ll see a blacked out square, (The only blacked out area of all google sky) seems Google is hiding it, but I mean it sits right where Jupiter is about to be “born”

    Pretty interesting I’d say. Also I understand now about your rapture theory, and it makes sense, although I am not set in stone as I am very open minded. I wish you wouldn’t have just deleted my earlier comment just because I disagreed with you, in fact as a brother you could’ve guided me in the right direction. I’m very open minded. Thanks and God bless.

  39. Tibs,

    You might be opened minded but you apparently cannot comprehend what I said. I emailed you and told you why I deleted your comment. My disagreement with what you said had nothing to do with my deleting you. I told you you were deleted because you were not on the post topic, had opinions about Bible passages that were not based on anything said in the Bible taken in correct context and the comment was too long. I told you to read my commenting policy if you wanted to comment but then you still tried to post the same comment broken in two parts.

    This comment is relevant to the topic, but the blocking of any red dragon is not true. Anyone can claim anything on Youtube. I suggest those that want to believe that this is true should use Google sky and verifying that there is nothing there for themselves. By the way, you also can find out on Youtube why what is claimed in that link is not true.

  40. Rodney Howard-Browne was in the oval office Monday, and along with other pastors, laid hands on Trump and prayed for him. The story is on Drudge website.

  41. I saw that. Word of Faith and New Apostolic Dominion Theology heretics being invited to the White House to pray over Trump. This could bring about a curse and America’s downfall. Will these false revival fake “Christians” end up bringing persecution against real Christians.

  42. @Don, I enjoy reading your blog because of the discernment evidenced here. Most don’t seem to know the difference anymore between the false, and the true Christianity.

  43. Don, I will second the “anonymous” comment. There is a lot of really bad information available on the internet and it can be hard to discern what is false. Thank you.

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